Author Topic: Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion  (Read 6696 times)

Offline 420

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« on: August 29, 2005, 05:32:19 PM »
OK, here are some things I discovered while participating in the PvP Extreme Weekend:

1. While Me/E Faster Cast nukers are very fun and effective in PvP they are almost totally useless in 4v4 PvP due to the fact that it is easy to spot them in the crowd. I think the no-defense nuke build would be most effective in a 8v8 battle with one protection/healing monk looking after them. Or possibly a single monk assigned to 2 nukers. In short, the nuker can dish it out but it can't take it.

2. Though the W/Mo tank seems to have dropped in popularity they seem to still be one of the most effective PvP builds. In fact I noticed that there was a serious lack of W/Mo tanks this weekend and when Throbble and I switched from playing Nukes to playing Tanks we did much better in all aspects of PvP.

3. The "Competition Arena" (Lion's Arch) yielded FAR more faction points than either the "Team Arena" (Droknar's Forge) or the Tomb of the Primeval Kings (Dragon's Lair) for 2 reasons. First, you didn't sit around waiting for the team leader to assemble the "best of the best" (an actual quote from some asshole who took an hour to put a Tomb's team together). Second, since the team is randomely assembled they are much more evenly (or unevenly) balanced.

That said, I have yet to be able to beat a team where every character on that team was either primary or secondary monk. Monks are the key to PvP and, barring any major tweaks to their skills, are invaluable assets to PvP teams.

Comments?

-420

Offline Anheg

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2005, 06:36:26 PM »
Quote
That said, I have yet to be able to beat a team where every character on that team was either primary or secondary monk. Monks are the key to PvP and, barring any major tweaks to their skills, are invaluable assets to PvP teams.

Comments?

-420
[snapback]27050[/snapback]
I was in a party once that was 4 primary monks. We got smoked because it was me (smiter) and 3 healers
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Offline Mo

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2005, 08:47:43 PM »
Ok i played pvp all weekend.  I agree and disagree with some of 420's comment.  Firstly I agree in 4v4 no defense nukers are ineffective.  In 4v4 you must have proper defensive skills booked.  Also equiping a rez sig is vital for 4v4 success.

On to the W/Mo story.  I do not believe these builds are good in pvp. Sure a tank can kill any noob ranger, monk, or caster, but he can not kill any vetran player on his own.  He simply doesn't do enough dmg.  The one thing he's good at isn't useful in pvp and that's living long on his own.  If your team is dying around you and you are incapable to do much dmg to even the score then you might as well be dead along with them.  My N/E laughs in the face of any W/Mo, as it would take one 10 mins to kill her but he has around 30 seconds to live.  That goes for a tank vs. any other build. An air spiker can make short work of one, fire nuker also, geomancer just forget about it if he uses wards.  As far as I've seen only the hammer warrior does well on his own because he can knockdown casters and monks which is very useful.  Otherwise W/Mo are only good in pairs while they attack the same target.  I was playing with Thobble. Shadow and Taarna, we did well when throbble and shadow ganged up on enemy monks.  While they kept the monk busy keeping himself from dying I was able to take out other targets.

2 monk teams in 4v4 aren't so good as they do not have enough offense to ultimately prevail.  Such a team however is good on the "deathmatch" RoF map.

The best teams I've been with for 4v4 have almost always had 1 excellent healing monk.  Healing monks are overpowered in 4v4, as a simple skills such as Healing Hands which require 5 enegy to cast and 5 second recharge can heal a monk for over 200 hp.  That's insane if you think about it.  Combine that with the other healing skills and there is almost no single build that can single handedly kill a monk.

On to 8v8.  As I have little experiece with this I will keep this short.  I think the Hounds are almost ready to engage in these battles.  Though unfortunately I rarely see enough hounds online.  There is however a noticible lack of Mesmers in the guild.  Mesmers are the hardest class to play but they are the best pvp class in GW.  A well thought out teams with a couple of mesmers casting skills like backfire, migrane, arcane conundum, crippling anguish, fragilty to name a few is the difference between a good 8 man team and a bad one.

I figure 2 primary monks, 1 for healing 1 for protection. Perhaps a Me/N for enchantment removal/backfire casting... plus your basic spikers and nukers and such.  I saw a team use Meteor Shower with high results.  It's a good skill if you can time it properly.  I was thinking how about using glyph of sacrifice with it.  That way you can cast is instantly without 5 second casting, instant shower could be deadly.

Offline Throbblefoot

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2005, 11:26:27 PM »
I found that my nuker did well in 8v8 when the team was balanced between offense, defense, and denial/shutdown. My nuker pretty much died in 4v4, so I have to agreee that 4v4 is the death zone for nukers.

That said, I have to disagree with Mo's assessment of tanks in PvP. In particular to 4v4 "Annialate the Other Team" random matches, I did very well using Restore Life (instead of rez sig) because I could stay alive long enough to raise two or three of my teammates, who could then finish off the other team (most times). In the "Most Kills" random matches, I had really mixed results, depending on the ratio of casters/fighters in the two teams.

I do agree that two Warriors wailing on a single foe (preferably with different weapon types) can be very effective. In tournament, the best team I had was was pretty much:
2 nukers
2 Warriors - axe and hammer (we also did okay with a Warrior and a Ranger)
2 healing Monks, one with prot, one with smite
1 denial Mesmer (who had some incidental Monk skills)
Either a N/E or A R/E (we had both)

We got to the third round of the Tombs twice in an hour (not that far, so we know the team isn't optimal). Hounds already have better monks than that team, but we need to maybe get more secondary Monks so we can exchange a healer for some offense.

I think 8v8 is the best bet for the Hounds. Let's see if we can schedule some play-time. How about this Saturday sometime?

-Throbblefoot
« Last Edit: August 29, 2005, 11:31:48 PM by Throbblefoot »
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Offline 420

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2005, 11:52:53 PM »
Quote
I saw a team use Meteor Shower with high results.  It's a good skill if you can time it properly.  I was thinking how about using glyph of sacrifice with it.  That way you can cast is instantly without 5 second casting, instant shower could be deadly.
[snapback]27054[/snapback]

I can definitly substitute Meteor Shower for one of my other offensive fire skills now that the new balance has lowered it's cost. 16 fast cast should be pretty close to instantly and it only costs me 2 mana with Elemental Attunment and Fire Attunement.

-420

Offline Mo

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2005, 03:00:24 AM »
Quote
I can definitly substitute Meteor Shower for one of my other offensive fire skills now that the new balance has lowered it's cost. 16 fast cast should be pretty close to instantly and it only costs me 2 mana with Elemental Attunment and Fire Attunement.

-420
[snapback]27057[/snapback]

Meteor Shower cost 25 base. i think you are thinking about Meteor.  Anyway I'm down whenever. I have a protection monk who can maintain some Life Bonds on players.

The only problem with Restore life is that once rez'ed you aren't full hp and can be killed rather quickly once you get up.  Though it's much better than Resurrection which brings you back with about 40 hp.  I've seen people cast that. They must really be noobs :P
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 03:01:44 AM by Mo »

Offline Elessar Telrunya

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2005, 11:36:58 AM »
You've all pretty much covered the basics, but there are still some team build ideas that should be noted.

1.  Basic Spiker Team:
Nuker
Nuker
Nuker
Nuker
Energy Denial/Shutdown Mesmer OR Nuker
Protection Monk
Healer Monk
Healer Monk
**
This build usually works well if done right, but it requires atlease all the nukers on Teamspeak, but only one of them needs to actually speak(It's better if only one person does speak anyway.).
Each Nuker requires three main skills, what else is there(attunements, Echo, resurrects, heals, etc.) should mainly help the nuker. The three main skills would be refered to on Teamspeak as skills A, B, and C.
Skill A: 15 energy, fairly short recharge, high damage skill(ball lightning/fireball)(80-100 damage, with exception of the water nukers, but with them, we might want to either stay away from them, or make a special purpose for them.)
Skill B: 10 energy, longer recharge than Skill A, high damage for atleast more than one target(chain lightning/meteor)(80-100 damage, with exception of the water nukers, but with them, we might want to either stay away from them, or make a special purpose for them.)
Skill C: Follow up skill:: 5 Energy, Shortest Recharge, medium to high damage(Flare/lightning strike/stone daggers)(40-60 damage, a water nuker would be great for additional follow damage with skills like water trident)
Here is where taking targets is especially important or it doesn't work very well. Once the target is taken, the counter calls out "Skill A/B 3, 2, 1" in Teamspeak and one "1" all nukers cast either Skill A or Skill B depending upon which skill is called and immediately follows up with Skill C.
If a shutdown/energy denial mesmer is employed, he must deny the monks to keep them from casting spells to keep the damage on target low or to heal them.
All monks do their regular jobs.
This builds main weakness is a Smite Team. I'm not entirely sure how smite teams are put together though, but the build Throbble posted is either it or close to it.
~*~*~
Rigor Mortis/Tiger's Fury Team:
Axe Warrior/Ranger with Tiger's Fury
Axe Warrior/Ranger with Tiger's Fury
Axe Warrior/Ranger with Tiger's Fury
Necromancer with Rigor Mortis and other skills to mess with opposing team.
Shutdown/Energy Denial Mesmer
Healer Monk
Healer Monk
Healer Monk OR Prot Monk
**
This build does not require Teamspeak, but it's success depends on how well people follow targets.
When the target is called the Necromancer casts Rigor Mortis(Curses) on the target to make sure that the Warriors always hit and then proceeds to do whatever it does to bug them.
Axe Warriors all gang up on the target and use Tiger's Fury to increase attack speed without making them take more damage or decreasing their own damage output.
The Shutdown/Energy Denial Mesmer must deny the monks to keep them from casting spells to keep the damage on target low or to heal them.
All Monks do their regular jobs.
I'm not entirely sure if this build has a specific weakness, but the time I was in this build, it did fairly well. : )
~*~*~
Thats all I can think of that's worth mentioning really... A Mesmer team that uses Illusionary Weaponry would probably wreak havoc, especially because the mesmer doesn't have to be part warrior.


-Elessar

Offline Anheg

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2005, 11:49:11 AM »
The team I got to the Dark Chamber with consisted of:
2 KD/AS Warriors
2 E/Mo Smiters
1 Curse/Shutdown N/Me
1 Shutdown/Energy Drain Mesmer
1 Heal Monk
1 Protection Monk

Everysingle person had a res sig, exept the monks who used Resurection only if needed.
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Offline Mo

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2005, 02:40:17 PM »
Illusionary Weaponry is a very dangerous skill.  If emplyed by a Me/W, he can use it with Flurry to increase attack rate while hitting everytime for 30+ dmg...ouch

Fragility/Virulence Me/N are also very dangerous, That build can kill a single target faster than any other build I've seen.

However all thats needed is a Me/N with Hex and Enchantment removal skills and the above two builds become worthless.

Offline Anheg

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2005, 03:49:24 PM »
a Mo/W is very powerful. I hit for 15-40 on warriors and 17-78 on casters, without skills.


Eviscerate
Axe Twist
Distrutive Chop
Bersekers Stance
Judges Insight
Strength of Honor
Shielding Hands
Ressurection Signet
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Offline 420

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2005, 06:45:50 PM »
Here is a screenshot of the party that I was in as a W/Mo that beat 10 Competition Arena battles in a row which automatically transfered us to the Team Arena where we got our asses handed to us.

[attachmentid=646]

-420

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Offline Mo

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2005, 08:34:22 PM »
Quote
Here is a screenshot of the party that I was in as a W/Mo that beat 10 Competition Arena battles in a row which automatically transfered us to the Team Arena where we got our asses handed to us.

[attachmentid=646]

-420
[snapback]27103[/snapback]


In the competition arena it's more about individual skill than team build.  I had a team with 1 tank 2 mesmers and my N/E.  We breezed through 9 in a row then won 6 in a row in the team arena, rather easily.  1 of the mesmers used IW.  We finally lost to a team with a Fragility/Virulance Mesmer and an Air spiker.  I think they had a monk also but i didn't notice do to being constantly killed by fragility and lightning orb.

On the Team Arena "Priest" map.  We found it very effective to just rush the other teams priest.  We'd run right by the other players, they notice this and run by us, except everytime one player so some crazy reason would stay behind and try to stop one of us.  We'd kill that player then kill the priest then meet the other team half way 4v3.  Worked like a charm.  If the other team doesn't want to run by you obviously you need to adjust strategy.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 08:36:48 PM by Mo »

Offline Anheg

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2006, 01:05:03 AM »
I miss GW being so unknown. Nothing being suprising takes some of the fun out of it.
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Offline Anheg

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2007, 04:19:30 AM »
Reading this shit makes me laugh.

Hahaha
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Offline Elessar Telrunya

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2007, 09:33:24 AM »
took me a while to remember the password just to get into here :x

-Elessar

Offline Throbblefoot

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Post PvP Extreme Weekend Discussion
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2007, 02:51:35 PM »
That discussion was nearly two years ago - of course some of the excitement is gone. That said, I really had fun last time I played with you folks - more fun than I remembered having last time I played with any frequency. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, I suppose.

-Throbblefoot
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