Author Topic: An RPG by any other name... (Read 24479 times)

Soul Sojourner · « **Reply #30 on:** June 14, 2006, 01:34:24 PM »

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your the only one in the disscusion cos i know im right. and the game page states it.
you just say it doesnt have rpg elements based on YOUR opinion, the game does have them, lvling up, buying things, changing costumes/weapons in inventory are rpg elements even that if in YOUR opinion theyre not.
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Those are general game elements, *I* wouldn't consider them RPG only elements. A discussion takes two, you continue to reply, so you are in the discussion as well. But by saying "I know I'm right" proves to me you think of it as an argument. And that is unfortunate. I don't like arguments, so you won't get one out of me, I like discussions, which I have followed throughout this thread, if you want an argument however, speak to Elessar.

Did you notice the *I* up there, could you not see them in many of my previous posts? I have made it obvious enough that it is my opinion, but just because Maiet is a team of people, there's is still an opinion as well. And *I* believe that if they have not put those clear RPG elements into the game, that it is not partially RPG until they do. I am a bit surprised about the opinion thing, I thought you knew that all along.

Tyrael · « **Reply #31 on:** June 14, 2006, 01:37:06 PM »

then tell me a game that has lvl ups, shop and inventory and its not considered rpg or with rpg elements in its review or homepage not on your opinion (besides gunz)

oh and add character customization, face and hair models, and classes ( even if all do the same)

Soul Sojourner · « **Reply #32 on:** June 14, 2006, 01:44:46 PM »

Obviously you are completely unaware of what I am *trying* to get at. RPG = Role-Playing Game. What I am getting at is Role-Playing. Uh yeah, where you play a role right?

Like playing the role of the prince of a kingdom and having to route out the evil duke who stole the kingdom and banished you. It is still a role-playing game WITHOUT leveling up, WITHOUT items to be equipped and so forth

In GunZ, what role does the character play? Who are you being? ...? Nobody. In a RPG you don't have to have levels or items for it to be role-playing, so what makes you think if a game DOES have those, that it has has anything to do with a role-playing game? Because having those elements certaintly doesn't make you be playing some sort of role.

Tyrael · « **Reply #33 on:** June 14, 2006, 01:52:16 PM »

who said it was an rpg? you are fighting with your own mind, cos i ONLY said rpg elements, and i asked you to say:

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a game that has lvl ups, shop and inventory and its not considered rpg or with rpg elements in its review or homepage not on your opinion (besides gunz)
character customization, face and hair models, and classes

not a dumb comment about what a rpg is cos you cant find any game and by that comment you mean that a game like prince of persia its an rpg game and thats even more dumb

Soul Sojourner · « **Reply #34 on:** June 14, 2006, 01:55:09 PM »

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who said it was an rpg? you are fighting with your own mind, cos i ONLY said rpg elements, and i asked you to say:
not a dumb comment about what a rpg is cos you cant find any game
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Nobody did, I UNDERSTAND that, like I said in the post before that, and noted in posts before that. What I am saying is, for it to have any PIECE of an RPG, by the defination of role-playing it must some sort of role-playing in it. You say RPG ELEMENTS, and I say not RPG elements, just the G elements, as in GAME ELEMENTS.

Do I have to find a game? I am speaking from a definative standpoint. The defination of role-playing.

Tyrael · « **Reply #35 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:00:33 PM »

have you ever read any game review? and even with 420's quote your still at it
its only an element like when they say it has matrix elements or in other games they say its an strategy game with rpg elements or a rpg with strategy elements.
stop fighting with your mind go to a psychologist or somethin

Soul Sojourner · « **Reply #36 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:03:54 PM »

I've been to a psychologist. And this is not a flame thread, so quit with the personal attacks. Of course, I am waiting for you to disprove my points. Which, even with 420's post, does not disprove what I am trying to note. Maybe leave room for someone else to try, rather than repeating your point, which I already said I understand completely, but is not what I am trying to point out as being incorrect.

420 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:13:08 PM »

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Obviously you are completely unaware of what I am *trying* to get at. RPG = Role-Playing Game. What I am getting at is Role-Playing. Uh yeah, where you play a role right?
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By this definition Super Mario Bros. is a role playing game. You play the role of an Italian-American plumber who enters the land of giant mushrooms through a sewer pipe to rescue Princess Toadstool from an evil turtle/dragon/Gamora thing.

MAMA MIA, that's a spicy meatball!

-420

Tyrael · « **Reply #38 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:14:36 PM »

i know whats an rpg game and i know that gunz its not an rpg game, i was just sayin rpg elements and you kept replyin as the whole fact of an rpg and i dont think that sayin that you maybe need to go to a psychologist its a personal attack and i kept replyin the same alike thing cos theres no other way around
and you still havent said the game

Throbblefoot · « **Reply #39 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:19:46 PM »

Anyone else have the feeling that neither Tyrael nor Hell has any clue what the other is on about?

-Throbblefoot

Psycho · « **Reply #40 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:23:38 PM »

Hahahah yes i think they are talking about diffrent subjects

Tyrael · « **Reply #41 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:26:54 PM »

i started it so its hell is who doesnt know what im talking about

and i just said what is hell about, hes just from the first reply talking about the whole fact of an rpg, cos i said gunz has rpg elements

and im still waiting for him to say a game with lvls, shop, inventory and character customization that its not an rpg or with the "rpg elements" hell seem to hate

Psycho · « **Reply #42 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:37:56 PM »

Well we will see what hell will say this time

Soul Sojourner · « **Reply #43 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:42:02 PM »

Yes, 420. Precisely. And that's a huge part of my point. But is it labeled an RPG? I didn't think so. Which is what I am getting at.

Throbble, you're half right. I understand what he is trying to say, and I've told him that, and he keeps repeating it. But what I am trying to point out is what is technically an element of role-playing, and what isn't. If it's from a game, then you can say they're all game elements. But they aren't essential to an RPG, and GunZ just has those added game elements, but they are not role-playing game elements as not all RPG's have or need them to be an RPG, they're just game elements used in many RPG's.

You ask me to note a game that has these elements that isn't an RPG, you do realize GunZ is the perfect example right?

Tyrael · « **Reply #44 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:12:45 PM »

and i said BESIDES gunz cos already in its webpage says it has rpg elements, and you wont say none cos theres none

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And that's a huge part of my point. But is it labeled an RPG?

and who said gunz is labeled as an rpg?

and the elements are essential to a rpg or either review of the game points that it has rpg elements, thats why im asking you to say a game that has the rpg elements and are not pointed

Soul Sojourner · « **Reply #45 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:23:28 PM »

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and i said BESIDES gunz cos already in its webpage says it has rpg elements, and you wont say none cos theres none
and who said gunz is labeled as an rpg?

and the elements are essential to a rpg or either review of the game points that it has rpg elements, thats why im asking you to say a game that has the rpg elements and are not pointed
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Uhh Tyrael that second part was directed to 420 NOT you, it was about MARIO, not GunZ.

Well this whole subject is revolved around GunZ, you say besides GunZ, but GunZ proves the point exactly. I think you might want to reread stuff mate, you are obviously not getting what I am saying at all.

420 · « **Reply #46 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:25:19 PM »

Let me see if I can get this thread back on topic:

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And yes Gunz in nice, its a kind of fps rpg in third person where you can use either guns, shotguns, rocket launchers... or katanas, dual katanas (kodachis) or daggers.
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Eh, I wouldn't consider GunZ an RPG at all..
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and... GO!

-420

Soul Sojourner · « **Reply #47 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:28:08 PM »

Nice.

Chard! · « **Reply #48 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:35:52 PM »

My opinion:

Games that are labeled as RPG's are mostly games in which you play a role in a story and use stuff like: different kind of weapons, level up etc. This "stuff" is called RPG elements. So a game where you DO play a role in a story but you don't encounter any RPG elements is NOT a real RPG in my opinion.

For example: Prince Of Persia is a game in which you play a role in a story but the game lacks RPG elements... So it's not an RPG.

In NWN (The single player campaign.) you play a role in a story and you can level up, shift your alignment etc. This is an RPG.

I hope i made my self clear with my sucky english.

Tyrael · « **Reply #49 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:37:54 PM »

i said besides gunz and you just keep evading the question cos theres none,
gunz is already stated as an third person shooter with some rpg elements in the reviews and its homepage not by my opinion.

try find a game with xp and lvl ups that its not stated as either a rpg or with rpg elements, you cant cos theres none

Tyrael · « **Reply #50 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:39:52 PM »

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My opinion:

Games that are labeled as RPG's are mostly games in which you play a role in a story and use stuff like: different kind of weapons, level up etc. This "stuff" is called RPG elements. So a game where you DO play a role in a story but you don't encounter any RPG elements is NOT a real RPG in my opinion.

For example: Prince Of Persia is a game in which you play a role in a story but the game lacks RPG elements... So it's not an RPG.

In NWN (The single player campaign.) you play a role in a story and you can level up, shift your alignment etc. This is an RPG.

I hope i made my self clear with my sucky english.
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i know but the point is that i never said that gunz is an rpg but hell keeps replyin as if i were

Chard! · « **Reply #51 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:41:14 PM »

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i know but the point is that i never said that gunz is an rpg but hell keeps replyin as if i were
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Yes, this thread is kinda confusing.

Tyrael · « **Reply #52 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:47:36 PM »

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Yes, this thread is kinda confusing.
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just cos hell cant understand that games can have other game types elements,
he keeps saying that xp, lvl ups, character customization, and some others are common to all game types

Throbblefoot · « **Reply #53 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:52:09 PM »

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i started it so its hell is who doesnt know what im talking about[snapback]29622[/snapback]

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Throbble, you're half right. I understand what he is trying to say, [snapback]29625[/snapback]

Pure comedy gold.

-Throbblefoot

Soul Sojourner · « **Reply #54 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:57:18 PM »

Actually, I am not replying as if you were saying it was an RPG, you just misunderstand everything I post. Secondly, you actually DID say it was, while adding "kind of" before saying so.

You apparantly don't understand what I am trying to say. And I am kind of tired of reading post after post where you say the same thing, I try explaining it different in every post, but you still don't get what I am talking about, so I give up. Now if someone ELSE would like to discuss it, sure.

Tyrael · « **Reply #55 on:** June 14, 2006, 04:09:47 PM »

excuses you just give up cos you know you went completely wrong talking about a different thing and about the "a kind of" its just another excuse and if it actually means that, sry im spanish, but ive been sayin for like all your replies that its NOT a rpg and you kept goin with the same thing saying rpgs have story and dunno what else
so you finally understand is better give up b4 some others come on and start sayin that you dont know whats a freakin game with rpg elements

Soul Sojourner · « **Reply #56 on:** June 14, 2006, 04:13:42 PM »

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excuses you just give up cos you know you went completely wrong talking about a different thing and about the "a kind of" its just another excuse you really know it doesnt mean that and ive been sayin for like all your replies that its NOT a rpg and you kept goin with the same thing saying rpgs have story and dunno what else
so you finally understand is better give up b4 some others come on and start sayin that you dont know whats a freakin game with rpg elements
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Wrong. I gave up because you can't seem to understand what I've been posting.

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saying rpgs have story and dunno what else

Was that a non-purposeful confession to having no idea what I've been trying to tell you, or that you really havent been reading or trying to absorb what I have posted?

No, I openly welcomed anyone who wanted to discuss it with me in my last post. Sorry, nice try.

420 · « **Reply #57 on:** June 14, 2006, 04:23:00 PM »

Let me toss some more wood on the fire while I'm waiting for my hotdogs to cook.

"Strife", which was the first FPS RPG, was created by Rogue Software using the original DOOM engine. It had no leveling, no skills/attributes/feats/stats and your character didn't even have a name. Pretty much the only RPG thing about Strife was the fact that once in a while someone would have a conversation with you instead of just trying to kill you.

If Strife is considered the first FPS RPG then certainly GunZ can also be considered one.

Here is an old (pre Quake III) article on Tim Willits (Link) it's the only place I could find Strife even mentioned.

Ah, here is some info on Strife: Wikipedia: Rogue Entertainment

-420

Tyrael · « **Reply #58 on:** June 14, 2006, 04:30:34 PM »

like if im gonna write all you have posted about a completely different thing, and stop with the just wrong cos you dont even know what else to say, cos you know you were wrong, i did understand you and replied it your the one that doesnt understand what a freaking game with rpg elements is, so you better just up
if u wanna continue the arguing about if gunz has rpg elements (wich it does)
call the maiet guys and argue with them cos its stated in their freaking website!!
:fool: :tease: :tease: :treaten: :treaten: :victory: :yahoo:

and bout the "dunno what else" its just a way to write, im spanish, i use that to say i dont wanna write all the dumb things you said, wich werent much more than what i wrote.

to 420:

haha nice, i only said rpg elements and now your post totally rip off all hell coments about the whole rpg thingie lol

Soul Sojourner · « **Reply #59 on:** June 14, 2006, 04:33:51 PM »

Then I was wrong.

Though the other part of my point was, like where I pointed out with the Mario thing, is the mislabeling of something as "Role-Playing" when it isn't, or not labeling it as, when it clearly is.

But in my opinion however, I would not consider either of them RPG's. To me, for it to be an RPG, as it's name implies, there should be role-playing.

Simple as that, anything left to discuss? Or anything more anyone want to discuss on the subject of RPG's? (I will note that one of my favorites of all time was Super Mario RPG - Legend of the Seven Stars, may seem a bit corny, but it was a fabulous game.)

EDIT: I'll note that this reply was to 420, as he did a good job of making his point. And Tyrael, I'll note that your near-flames and argumentative statements, about being right or wrong is petty and immature. "It's better to do right than be right."

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Author Topic: An RPG by any other name... (Read 24479 times)

Psycho

Psycho

Chard!

Chard!