What you hate about mages

[Mo]

This is pointless .

Mo > Perhaps I overeacted but I wasn't the one who started with offensive words .  Let's ignore each other in a mutual scorn .

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You are henceforth ignored.

[Anheg]

Why can we be friends? Be happy, dont worry.

[ViperDE2004]

STOP! I WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS CRAP. If you have mage issues, just deal with it in the flame wars or something, not in *WHAT I HATE ABOUT MAGES*. About this banning stuff, WE DONT CARE. WE DONT CARE IF YOU SAY BAD WORDS.

Now to the real topic: Ice Storm.  If you dodge ice storm this is the real defenition: Your move was shit.  You didnt get good timing and you got hit. You have no right to run away, or try to dodge it.  If you messed up, its your fault.  If he dosent want to use FOD, thats fine. Its a choice of spells. But remember this, if you dodge, and run away because of your mistake, the respect you get from other mages goes basicaly down to 0.

-Viper

P.S. PLAY NICE!

[Mo]

STOP! I WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS CRAP. If you have mage issues, just deal with it in the flame wars or something, not in *WHAT I HATE ABOUT MAGES*. About this banning stuff, WE DONT CARE. WE DONT CARE IF YOU SAY BAD WORDS.

Now to the real topic: Ice Storm.  If you dodge ice storm this is the real defenition: Your move was shit.  You didnt get good timing and you got hit. You have no right to run away, or try to dodge it.  If you messed up, its your fault.  If he dosent want to use FOD, thats fine. Its a choice of spells. But remember this, if you dodge, and run away because of your mistake, the respect you get for mage dueling is basicaly down to 0.

-Viper

P.S. PLAY NICE!

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exactly

[Knuckles]

here here

[iceycool56]

Ice storm: if you miss the person you have really bad aim. I would recomend practicing your acuracy. Because if you cant hit a mage, you got a serious problem!!!

-Viper

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Now to the real topic: Ice Storm.  If you dodge ice storm this is the real defenition: Your move was shit.  You didnt get good timing and you got hit. You have no right to run away, or try to dodge it.  If you messed up, its your fault.  If he dosent want to use FOD, thats fine. Its a choice of spells. But remember this, if you dodge, and run away because of your mistake, the respect you get from other mages goes basicaly down to 0.

-Viper

P.S. PLAY NICE!

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So wait... I'm a little confused.  Are you pro-dodging or anti-dodging?  I'm confused since you posted twice on that issue  :glare:

[Tea-cup]

I want to add that taking a lot of ice resist is as lame as doging the icestorms and completly ruins the druids only real offensif spell. I would take ice resist to the point icestorm does about the same damage as fod. 30 ice resist or so.

If doge isn't the same as taking a load of iceresist, the point of 'a hit is a hit, you made a mistake' doesn't makes sence. Then you go out from the point that it's build like that, but a mage vs mage is build to get killed by his low ac. You would like someone trowing darts in a mage vs mage?

And if you can't agree whit this you're just defining the rules of a mage duel so that they fit your way of dueling and your char the best and give you the most change to win. It's just a 'I want to win' argument about the dogging then.

So, is a load of iceresist lame? It's a old topic and I want to know...

-Mel

[Mo]

I want to add that taking a lot of ice resist is as lame as doging the icestorms and completly ruins the druids only real offensif spell. I would take ice resist to the point icestorm does about the same damage as fod. 30 ice resist or so.

If doge isn't the same as taking a load of iceresist, the point of 'a hit is a hit, you made a mistake' doesn't makes sence. Then you go out from the point that it's build like that, but a mage vs mage is build to get killed by his low ac. You would like someone trowing darts in a mage vs mage?

And if you can't agree whit this you're just defining the rules of a mage duel so that they fit your way of dueling and your char the best and give you the most change to win. It's just a 'I want to win' argument about the dogging then.

So, is a load of iceresist lame? It's a old topic and I want to know...

-Mel

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It's not lame...you need a lot of feats to get very high ice resist. at least 6 for 60 resist.  So it's not lame at all.  

Also why would someone throw darts in a mage duel?  Thats just stupid.

[Anheg]

Ture, Ice is a druids only good offencive spell, but resisits take feats and using that many feats means you are handycapped (i know i cany spell) in someother way. It is all opinion on what is more important.

-Mo's above post was not there when i started to type this-

[bus driver]

some bulleted points about mages ....


*A pure mage can woop a melee.
*Pisses me off when they duel in the centre of the arena and dont take there duels to the side or away from people......many a duel has been spoilt cause of friendly fire from mage AoE.
*There way to overpowerd.
*They are all weaklings on the inside.
*Its hardly balance when everyone is turning into some mage melee/mage char ........................though i dont know much about balance but i know alot of builds cant stand up to a mage melee or mage without using a mage melee or mage vs them (not everyone is making them ..........but theres alot of them..)



Divine.....Arcane............its all the same it all belongs at the end of my axe

[Maxou]

My build wasn't mage vs mage . It was mage vs all build . Like Mo said that's why I runned from ice storm . Just fight an all round try mage in a mage duel vs a mage vs mage only ( Edit : Dunno if that means anything . Excuse my poor engish ) . You'll see my point .
6 feats for ice resist is low in a pure mage vs mage build . I mean I made a 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk ( ok here goes originality ) >> it was really easy to build and I got 6 epic cold resist , decent hp , and 3 epics spells . 6 epic cold resist  is a waste of feats > even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .

Edit : Mel they are right atm . Mage vs mage char is not mage vs cleric , nor druid . And if you wanna fight a caster cleric/druid being a mage you'll hardly need epic ice cold resist . What I do hate about mage is that they are too powerfull vs caster cleric/druid . Expet if the clerics/druids use the called "lame stuff" >> stuff that a  lot of clerics/druid won't use . But if you are a mage and fight vs a cleric/druid caster just accept harm , wof , etc . You just sucked at remantling that's all .

[gashmo]

i agree with Mo on that mage v mage duel iquestion

u see, in "true" mage duelling
there is NO melee allowed - no summons - no weapons attack
the focus in on geting past mantle
thats what the ture mage pvper is about
that is why true mages - will scorn any duel with a melee based character

this comes from the belief that mages focus on magic. and the knowledge that of course if mages wanted to they can slay a meleer. meleers are below the notice of true mages.

it also comes from the knowledge of how to cast spells properly. most mages today do not know how to speed up or slow down casting. so they wander off into melee builds. it is a shame but yeah a true mage who knows the real ways of how to cast properly will always pierce mantle of noobie mages.

[Maxou]

i agree with Mo on that mage v mage duel iquestion

u see, in "true" mage duelling
there is NO melee allowed - no summons - no weapons attack
the focus in on geting past mantle
thats what the ture mage pvper is about
that is why true mages - will scorn any duel with a melee based character

this comes from the belief that mages focus on magic. and the knowledge that of course if mages wanted to they can slay a meleer. meleers are below the notice of true mages.

it also comes from the knowledge of how to cast spells properly. most mages today do not know how to speed up or slow down casting. so they wander off into melee builds. it is a shame but yeah a true mage who knows the real ways of how to cast properly will always pierce mantle of noobie mages.

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About summon never tried that lvl 4 spell or banishment ?
I agree with you exept for summon . But I don't see your point about mages that goes into melee build because they can't "slow down" or "speed up" casting . Can you eplain more  please ?

[Mo]

even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .

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Please use a calculator next time you attempt subtraction.

39 lvl wizard Ice Storm = 108 dmg - 40 cold resist = 68 dmg = X

Issac's = 60 dmg = Y

---> X > Y  ---> above comment = false

[Tea-cup]

I want to add that taking a lot of ice resist is as lame as doging the icestorms and completly ruins the druids only real offensif spell. I would take ice resist to the point icestorm does about the same damage as fod. 30 ice resist or so.

If doge isn't the same as taking a load of iceresist, the point of 'a hit is a hit, you made a mistake' doesn't makes sence. Then you go out from the point that it's build like that, but a mage vs mage is build to get killed by his low ac. You would like someone trowing darts in a mage vs mage?

And if you can't agree whit this you're just defining the rules of a mage duel so that they fit your way of dueling and your char the best and give you the most change to win. It's just a 'I want to win' argument about the dogging then.

So, is a load of iceresist lame? It's a old topic and I want to know...

-Mel

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It's not lame...you need a lot of feats to get very high ice resist. at least 6 for 60 resist.  So it's not lame at all.  

Also why would someone throw darts in a mage duel?  Thats just stupid.

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Then a hit isn't a hit. I don't get the point of the mage duels then.... If it's the build that matter that much, I see darts as allowed too, because it's your build that miss ac that's hard to get. Like the 60 iceresist would miss on maxou.

I saw a mage duel as something that required timeing, some skill to time as the important thing. If the build is the point of it, I'll just keep useing my 26 mage. It's way better for a mage duel then. Sadly. The timeing won't matter when you duel it.

-Mel

[Tea-cup]

My build wasn't mage vs mage . It was mage vs all build . Like Mo said that's why I runned from ice storm . Just fight an all round try mage in a mage duel vs a mage vs mage only ( Edit : Dunno if that means anything . Excuse my poor engish ) . You'll see my point .
6 feats for ice resist is low in a pure mage vs mage build . I mean I made a 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk ( ok here goes originality ) >> it was really easy to build and I got 6 epic cold resist , decent hp , and 3 epics spells . 6 epic cold resist  is a waste of feats > even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .

Edit : Mel they are right atm . Mage vs mage char is not mage vs cleric , nor druid . And if you wanna fight a caster cleric/druid being a mage you'll hardly need epic ice cold resist . What I do hate about mage is that they are too powerfull vs caster cleric/druid . Expet if the clerics/druids use the called "lame stuff" >> stuff that a  lot of clerics/druid won't use . But if you are a mage and fight vs a cleric/druid caster just accept harm , wof , etc . You just sucked at remantling that's all .

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I would like to see balanced pvp, sorry.

-Mel

[Mo]

My build wasn't mage vs mage . It was mage vs all build . Like Mo said that's why I runned from ice storm . Just fight an all round try mage in a mage duel vs a mage vs mage only ( Edit : Dunno if that means anything . Excuse my poor engish ) . You'll see my point .
6 feats for ice resist is low in a pure mage vs mage build . I mean I made a 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk ( ok here goes originality ) >> it was really easy to build and I got 6 epic cold resist , decent hp , and 3 epics spells . 6 epic cold resist  is a waste of feats > even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .

Edit : Mel they are right atm . Mage vs mage char is not mage vs cleric , nor druid . And if you wanna fight a caster cleric/druid being a mage you'll hardly need epic ice cold resist . What I do hate about mage is that they are too powerfull vs caster cleric/druid . Expet if the clerics/druids use the called "lame stuff" >> stuff that a  lot of clerics/druid won't use . But if you are a mage and fight vs a cleric/druid caster just accept harm , wof , etc . You just sucked at remantling that's all .

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I would like to see balanced pvp, sorry.

-Mel

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You forget that this game is based on D&D.  In which case there are no characters that can defeat a high level magic user, using magic alone besides another magic user.
Clerics and Druids are built so that their magic abilities can never match a simillar level mage.  This is why Clerics are geared more towards melee and Druids are geared more towards shifting.  There is no balance here and this is the way it is supposed to be,

[Tea-cup]

My build wasn't mage vs mage . It was mage vs all build . Like Mo said that's why I runned from ice storm . Just fight an all round try mage in a mage duel vs a mage vs mage only ( Edit : Dunno if that means anything . Excuse my poor engish ) . You'll see my point .
6 feats for ice resist is low in a pure mage vs mage build . I mean I made a 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk ( ok here goes originality ) >> it was really easy to build and I got 6 epic cold resist , decent hp , and 3 epics spells . 6 epic cold resist  is a waste of feats > even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .

Edit : Mel they are right atm . Mage vs mage char is not mage vs cleric , nor druid . And if you wanna fight a caster cleric/druid being a mage you'll hardly need epic ice cold resist . What I do hate about mage is that they are too powerfull vs caster cleric/druid . Expet if the clerics/druids use the called "lame stuff" >> stuff that a  lot of clerics/druid won't use . But if you are a mage and fight vs a cleric/druid caster just accept harm , wof , etc . You just sucked at remantling that's all .

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I would like to see balanced pvp, sorry.

-Mel

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You forget that this game is based on D&D.  In which case there are no characters that can defeat a high level magic user, using magic alone besides another magic user.
Clerics and Druids are built so that their magic abilities can never match a simillar level mage.  This is why Clerics are geared more towards melee and Druids are geared more towards shifting.  There is no balance here and this is the way it is supposed to be,

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I prefer gameplay above those d&d rules. It's nice when you can imporve the game by making it follow the d&d rules, but breaking the game for d&d .. nah, it's called legit balanced pvp anyway, not d&d mod or whatever. Mages that are unbeatable by melee's is so on 20 ac resist servers. There you had those 'perfect' builds everyone had and used. Or monk melee, that happend too.

I like gs for it's amount of unique builds that are worth something in duel. Also, mages aren't superior on gs, but they are easy to win whit, won't deny that. The idea you put there is the opposite of it, it's a duel like a video, whit nothing new in it, no surpizes that can happen ... nothing ...

This is 'the way it is to be'? And who can say it has to be like that, 'god'?

Besides I don't even see a point in mage duels now, because the timing doesn't matters that much, and the idea of 'a hit is a hit' doesn't apply either. I did think that was the point of it. Even don't see why doging isn't allowed...
(see my other post in this thread if you wonder why I say this)

I think I soon will have to agree whit james that the current system is better. I so liked the old mage duels, where timing did matter the most.  

-Mel

[Mo]

Besides I don't even see a point in mage duels now, because the timing doesn't matters that much, and the idea of 'a hit is a hit' doesn't apply either. I did think that was the point of it. Even don't see why doging isn't allowed...
(see my other post in this thread if you wonder why I say this)

I think I soon will have to agree whit james that the current system is better. I so liked the old mage duels, where timing did matter the most. 
-Mel

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Dunno what you're talking about.  Timing still matters the most, then i'd say spell strategy matters next then build.

[Tea-cup]

Besides I don't even see a point in mage duels now, because the timing doesn't matters that much, and the idea of 'a hit is a hit' doesn't apply either. I did think that was the point of it. Even don't see why doging isn't allowed...
(see my other post in this thread if you wonder why I say this)

I think I soon will have to agree whit james that the current system is better. I so liked the old mage duels, where timing did matter the most. 
-Mel

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Dunno what you're talking about.  Timing still matters the most, then i'd say spell strategy matters next then build.

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It doesn't depends on timeing and 'a hit is a hit' whit the things you say about mage duel. Just real all my posts before in this thread if you wonder what I mean, I'm not typeing it again.

-Mel

[Mo]

Besides I don't even see a point in mage duels now, because the timing doesn't matters that much, and the idea of 'a hit is a hit' doesn't apply either. I did think that was the point of it. Even don't see why doging isn't allowed...
(see my other post in this thread if you wonder why I say this)

I think I soon will have to agree whit james that the current system is better. I so liked the old mage duels, where timing did matter the most. 
-Mel

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Dunno what you're talking about.  Timing still matters the most, then i'd say spell strategy matters next then build.

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It doesn't depends on timeing and 'a hit is a hit' whit the things you say about mage duel. Just real all my posts before in this thread if you wonder what I mean, I'm not typeing it again.

-Mel

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I've read it all trust me.  You're confused if not blatently wrong in this matter.
I've dueled with casters since the outset of this NWN.  I've dueled against all different kinds of pvp casters (legit, bullet casters etc).  It's all timing and this is how I've tought all AoM players and this is why they are the best casters in legit pvp.

Any dispute to this fact is erronious.

[Tea-cup]

Besides I don't even see a point in mage duels now, because the timing doesn't matters that much, and the idea of 'a hit is a hit' doesn't apply either. I did think that was the point of it. Even don't see why doging isn't allowed...
(see my other post in this thread if you wonder why I say this)

I think I soon will have to agree whit james that the current system is better. I so liked the old mage duels, where timing did matter the most. 
-Mel

[snapback]12874[/snapback]

Dunno what you're talking about.  Timing still matters the most, then i'd say spell strategy matters next then build.

[snapback]12893[/snapback]

It doesn't depends on timeing and 'a hit is a hit' whit the things you say about mage duel. Just real all my posts before in this thread if you wonder what I mean, I'm not typeing it again.

-Mel

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I've read it all trust me.  You're confused if not blatently wrong in this matter.
I've dueled with casters since the outset of this NWN.  I've dueled against all different kinds of pvp casters (legit, bullet casters etc).  It's all timing and this is how I've tought all AoM players and this is why they are the best casters in legit pvp.

Any dispute to this fact is erronious.

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I not really doubt if you did duel a lot, I did too and I'm also a old player. But that doesn't matters at all. I just can't agree whit your opinoins how you want others to duel. And taking high ice resist is in my eyes lamer than doge them. I just think I'll duel players that don't want to define how others should duel. Like shadowfury that didn't make a problem of it that I used hide to cancel his casts in a mage duel. (this also eats feats and classes to get, even more than iceresist, and is harder to do than running up to the other to avoid the icestorms)

You didn't had a point to get upset againt maxou (even banned him right?) for your different opinion how you should doge icestorm, you say whit resist, he just use his brains and force you to use fod whit works as fine. Just play the game.

You got my opinion now.

Feel free to give a reply like it fits you but I see this convesation as over, and as useless because the current players don't make problems of it.

-Mel

[Maxou]

even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .

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Please use a calculator next time you attempt subtraction.

39 lvl wizard Ice Storm = 108 dmg - 40 cold resist = 68 dmg = X

Issac's = 60 dmg = Y

---> X > Y  ---> above comment = false

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You can't stop ur self isn't it ? Then 5 and it's ok . Anyway 6 is a waste of feats . And even with 4 it would do less dmg than fod .

Mel >> Sry I didn't understand what you meant about cleric/druid vs mage . I mean , can you try on arivs raising sr on spell resistance ( lvl 5 cleric and druid I think ) to afford cleric and druid to "mage duel" . Making that sr spell working just like mantle . I think that would balance mage vs cleric/druid . Dunno really .

[Mo]

even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .

[snapback]12832[/snapback]

Please use a calculator next time you attempt subtraction.

39 lvl wizard Ice Storm = 108 dmg - 40 cold resist = 68 dmg = X

Issac's = 60 dmg = Y

---> X > Y  ---> above comment = false

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You can't stop ur self isn't it ? Then 5 and it's ok . Anyway 6 is a waste of feats . And even with 4 it would do less dmg than fod .

Mel >> Sry I didn't understand what you meant about cleric/druid vs mage . I mean , can you try on arivs raising sr on spell resistance ( lvl 5 cleric and druid I think ) to afford cleric and druid to "mage duel" . Making that sr spell working just like mantle . I think that would balance mage vs cleric/druid . Dunno really .

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Won't make a difference. Spell breach and Mords gets rid of Spell Resistance.

[Tea-cup]

The druid really can make a nice duel against a mage, losing it's main weapon (icestorm) does kill caster-druids of course. And I'm not saying a mage vs mage like some poeple see it, nwn has quite a few option for build and duel ways.

I would like to see gs on btw, arivs is ment to be a testground and warserver, not a second gs.

-Mel

[Blood Angel]

60 or 68 who cares that 8 dmg doesn't make a ice storm worth it when you can just use a FoD.

[Tea-cup]

60 or 68 who cares that 8 dmg doesn't make a ice storm worth it when you can just use a FoD.

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FoD is more than 70 damage for high mages. Icestorm is usefull against hiders, FoD is better when someone runs close to you and/or around you. In both cases horrid or isaac's missles give a nice solution too, but a bit less damage for high mages.

-Mel

[James_2k]

60 or 68 who cares that 8 dmg doesn't make a ice storm worth it when you can just use a FoD.

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FoD is more than 70 damage for high mages. Icestorm is usefull against hiders, FoD is better when someone runs close to you and/or around you. In both cases horrid or isaac's missles give a nice solution too, but a bit less damage for high mages.

-Mel

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yeah FoD for my mage is quite crappy, horrod is ok (max 25 d-something) so i get full dmg with it but i still use isaacs when i cant be bothered hiding any more

[Blood Angel]

but we were talking about real mages with high lvls >.<

[Tea-cup]

but we were talking about real mages with high lvls >.<

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Not exactly, were talking about the lack of (nearly) pure mages on gs these days. And also those new kind of mages having high hp/ac/ab (and hide somethimes) whit only 26 or lower sorc/wiz levels.

Just, the old mage duels have something special too. Also I not really have problems whit Mo's oppinions about taking ice resist. Just his reaction on other poeple playstyles did bother me. But I don't want to start this again.

Poeple should try those high mage builds a bit more, they can be fun to duel whit. I'm crappy at making them because I want at least 84 ac while having enough spellslots/hp to duel someone whit only spellslots and hp. And I don't want a helm on top of it. On other builds I always can do it whit 1 item less than the others. But that kind of mage can't be done like that.

I know I make it hard (impossible) for myself

-Mel