Is downloading torrent p2p files theft?

[gashmo]

Ok we all know that you can get free software off the wbe using torrents.

I think the moral status of this is in flux atm. Strictly speaking, if the state of the law whereever u are does not make it legally actionable in civil or criminal law, then it is not contrary to the law to download it. This is the case I think in places like.. slovenia and.. netherlands, where IP laws are very lax in this field.

But is it morally wrong? Ok so a lot of peole put a lot of hard effort into their software. I do not think it is morally wrong because, they have made an independent decision to be rewarded financially for it anyway. It only becomes morally wrong, imho, if these people suddenly do not receive an adequate reward.

Is it economically wrong? I think the reward model for IP rights is broken in the West. Linux has proven that you do not need monopoly rights to create good or better software.

So, in my humble opinion, I think using otrrents atm is fine, but you need to acknowledge that society has not reached a final decision about its status yet.

er.. what do u guys think?

[420]

My thoughts on the matter:

If you like a product, supporting its creators is in your best interest because it allows them to continue. (this goes for software, music, books and anything else that is the product of someones hard work)

If you are forced to use a product (like Windows) because of an unchallenged monopoly then you should do your best to rip those evil fuckers off.

Now, that said, here is what I have always thought:

Computer hardware should be extremely expensive and software should be free advertisments to upgrade your hardware. This would eliminate all arguments about pirated software, stop companies from making "new" games that are just re-hashed old games and stop things like Bill Gates from forming like the skin on pudding that was left sitting out.

The main problem with software is that it is easily copied, used by multiple users simultaneously and transfered over long distances. Not so with Hardware.

-420

[bus driver]

torrent p2p is this a new p2p software is it full of adds and other nastys ............................ive been looking for new p2p software but to afriad after what happen last time *waves fist at kazaa*

[gashmo]

hi bus

i found people talking about p2p  here :-
http://astabagger.proboards30.com/index.cg...&num=1097662500

[Celestial1]

*Flashes back to "Legal or not!"*

Bittorrent/p2p file sharing:

1: p2p file sharing is ILLEGAL, and the only way it is legal is if you have to buy the files.
2: Downloading and owning bittorrent/p2p software is legal. Using it, however, is!

In conclusion: You can own and download any p2p program, but you cannot use it while staying legal. The individual software and files you download from the p2p must be paid for to be legal.

You, LOSE!

~Celestial, your host

[gashmo]

what if the files u r downloading are games which have been specially enhanced? eg: let's say someone reverse engineered nwn or HL and produced a totally new and improved nwn 2 or hl 3?

is that still an illegal copy or should that someone get credit for his effort?
what if what he creates is something totally new and amazing? like emotional AI?

what if the software he used in reverse engineering came from bittorrent? does the fact that it's supposed illegality deny him the right to his brilliant work?

what does this say about IP rights generally? Are they not too restrictive? has not the new explosion of infotech round the world been due to this pioneering protocols on the edge of legality? shouldn't we encourage more liberalisation so as to push innovation?

Does not our current IP laws only encourage monopolistic and overpaid behemoths like MS to arise?

[Celestial1]

1: Changing a game without the authors permission, then putting it out for p2p (once again without getting authors permission) is illegal.

2: If someone makes a completely new program or something of the such, it is still illegal unless put out on the author's website.

3: Stop going crazy, I said what I said, and thats what I meant.

[ViperDE2004]

Anything that you do not pay for and has a copyright or some kind of international identification is illegal.  People say: "But everyone does it"  But what they dont understand is they can go after anyone they want.  And you just might be the one.  

Anyone using Kazaa ( Why in the name of Phillips would you use this software anyway, its full of spyware.  Did you know more then half of the install.exe is spyware?  For all you kazaa users out there, ii recomend just deleting it and dont get any software illegaly.  Cause obviously your a newb.)  and downloading off of it its illegal.  Unless you download poems from your brother peter off of his computer in nova scotia.  Point is dont do it if you dont know what to do.

About 420's comment concerning windows os, RIP THE FUCK OUT OF THEM.  I WILL SHIP YOU COPIES WITH CD KEYS.  They over price so much its not even funny.  They do this because most people are forced to buy this junk.  In case you havent noticed, windows has more bugs then the amazon forest has.  Personaly i hate it, and how the internet is growing today,  you can go on google and learn in 1 day how to hack an entire school in a matter of minutes.  This is how unsecure windows is today.  

They give you all this crap about windows xp being the the most secure and most compatible os out there.  Its very userfriendly to.  TO userfriendly.  At my school, they instaled windows xp not to long ago.  In 2 min, i was able to log on as admiin and access all the files in the schools database.  I was also able to change every teachers/princible's password using the *user control center*.  But im a nice guy so i just kept it to myself and enjoyed the power of being in control of the whole school.

In conclution of my longest post ever,  everybody has different opinions about Warez, P2P, irc, direct file sharing, but ifyou think about it, some people base there carriers on finding people who use these software and exploit them.  So if no one cracked or shared software, alot of people would loose there jobs.  I for one do crack software, in fact the only game i have ever bought for the pc is Neverwinter Nights.

-Viper