Author Topic: Time Travel  (Read 13199 times)

Offline 420

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Time Travel
« on: March 27, 2005, 02:04:04 AM »
OK, it's time to lay this issue to rest: Is time travel possible?

Tolar says: Time travel is only possible when traveling to the future because time travel to the past creates a paradox.

I say that the universe exists in at least 4 dimensions, the x, y and z axis or 3 dimensional space, and the 4th dimension of time. It exists as a whole organism (for lack of a better word) from beginning to end.

I think time travel is possible, however it does not happen in my life time. I know this because I decided a long time ago that if time travel was possible I would have traveled back in time to tell myself this fact.

Tolar's theory would suggest that time travel could be possible within my lifetime and I wouldn't be able to go back and inform my past self of this fact. (Only time travel to the future would be possible)

So I am going to assume that the theories of time travel are as diverse as the number of people willing to espouse their own opinions about time travel.

Let's have some points of view!

-420
« Last Edit: March 27, 2005, 02:13:27 AM by 420 »

Offline Mo

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Time Travel
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2005, 04:05:33 AM »
Time travel to the future is proven fact thanks to Einstein's special theory of relativity, specifically Time Dialation.  The science is as follows:  The closer one travels to the speed of light, time will accordingly slow down.  Such as when you would actually reach the speed of light, time would essentially almost stop. So say you travel around the Earth at 1/3 the speed of light for,what appears to you as 30 days (I don't have the exact equation off hand), the same period would have passed by on Earth as 50 years.  Therefore in those 30 days you traveled forward 50 years in time.  This theory has been proven aboard the space shuttle.

Tolar is correct to mention that traveling backwards in time would create paradoxes and make absolutely no sense.  However I contend that traveling backwards in time in possible in a sense.  You do it everyday in fact.  Look up to the Sun.  The sun you are viewing is actually the Sun 8 mintues ago.  Simply because it takes 8 mintues for the light from the sun to travel into your eye.  Now take a big telescope and look at a distant galaxy.  You are viewing this galaxing not in the present but the way it was a few millions of years in the distant past.  Effectively you are looking backwards in time.  Essentially if you had a power enough telescope and traveled 42 light years into the future instantly, then pointed your super powerful telescope at Earth, and specifically Dallas Taxas, you could view the Kennedy assasination happening because the light from that event is only reaching your vantage point now.  Anyway I contend that this is traveling backwards in time.

Other more conventional time travel theories will contend that traveling physically backwards in time is possible only if you travel into some sort of parallel universe. Crazy stuff...(ie. Watch the show Sliders for an idea of parallel universe theories)...

Hope this blah blah made sense..been drinking..so blah

Offline Lance Ezekiel

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Time Travel
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2005, 04:58:29 AM »
I dont beleave in fate so traveling forward in time is not possible imo

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Offline Tea-cup

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Time Travel
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2005, 06:06:09 AM »
Real traveling in time isn't possible. The moment after and before a giving moment, don't exist. (my opinion)

That time doesn't goes as fast for each object, what Mo says, is corect (as long you can't break down what Einsteins says at least). But going at 1/3 of the light speed around the earth gives forces a human body can't resist at all (think of G-forces like with pilotes, but then million times worse, there are easyer ways to suicide). The only place, were you can circulate that fast (and faster), around a small object, is around a black hole. (in term of this speed, the earth is nothing). But you're born too early to ever have a change to see something like that. (won't be much to see around a black hole anyway, and it still is pretty much suicide :P)

-Mel
« Last Edit: March 27, 2005, 06:06:32 AM by Tea-cup »

Offline fireknight40

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Time Travel
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2005, 12:40:20 AM »
Here's what I think:
I believe there are an infinite amount of  dimensions. To travel through time one must travel between these sed dimensions. In other words each dimension is another second in time so one could be when you're a baby another could be when you're on your death bed of billions of years. Suchly time repeats itself in the dimensions. However if you jump between dimensions the "you" in your dimension dissappears and puts you another dimension. so there would be two of "you" in one dimension and none in the one "you" traveled from.

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Offline Elessar Telrunya

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Time Travel
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2005, 07:59:49 AM »
Time is delacate. It should not be meddled with, unless it is inevetably the only way to make something happen, that did happen. Think of it this way. If you went back to make 420's parents lovebirds and not a crazy woman and a strange cop, 420 might not be here right now to make this thread, niether archepelago, rune, nor throbbleserve would probably exist. This thread and these posts would never exist, I'd be a horrible person probably on a long long long long ban from godspire.

Another example, If I went back in time and stopped whats his face(i cant remember the name atm) from assassinating Kenedy, I could possibly end up being accused of trying to assassinate Kennedy due to the fact taht I would have the gun in my hand. They would also probably think that I was trying to kill whats his face as well and he would possibly get another chance to assassinate Kennedy, thus only delaying the death.

However an example where it would be nessessary to do something in the past is like if you went back in time to, say the American Revolution and you found George Washington and the other signers of the Declaration of Independance unsure if they really should sign the document. If you encouraged them to sign it, everything would go as it does in our history books. If you didn't, all the americas would possibly still be colonies of the european nations, thus, st louis would be part of france and my parents would never have been able to meet there and have me or any of my siblings. See what I'm getting at?



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Offline CABAZON

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Time Travel
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2005, 09:36:24 AM »
Time isn't time.

If it were there, and time travel were possible, nothing would exist because SOMEONE throughout the course of history would go back and kill everything before it happened but they'd be dead before they could make it happen and all that nifty stuff.

I'm using the power rangers to steal bandwidth from 10,000 people in florida.

Offline Mercy

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Time Travel
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2005, 02:06:14 PM »
Quote
Real traveling in time isn't possible. The moment after and before a giving moment, don't exist. (my opinion)

That time doesn't goes as fast for each object, what Mo says, is corect (as long you can't break down what Einsteins says at least). But going at 1/3 of the light speed around the earth gives forces a human body can't resist at all (think of G-forces like with pilotes, but then million times worse, there are easyer ways to suicide). The only place, were you can circulate that fast (and faster), around a small object, is around a black hole. (in term of this speed, the earth is nothing). But you're born too early to ever have a change to see something like that. (won't be much to see around a black hole anyway, and it still is pretty much suicide :P)

-Mel
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Actually, with the zero gravity in space, going 1/3 the speed of light wouldnt be that strenuous on the body. It would feel quite smooth and otherise slow. But, who knows how long till we can go faster than that. Maybe Time Travel will be possible one day.
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Offline 420

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Time Travel
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2005, 02:15:03 PM »
Well, I don't agree at all with the concept that the past already happened, the future hasn't happened yet and the present here and now is the only thing existing right now.

If time travel was possible I think the present we are experiencing is one that has already been altered by people travelling to the past. Ever think about that?

I don't think the present or the future could be changed by time travel because, if time travel were possible then the reality we are experiencing is one which has already been affected by time travel. Whether it be to the past or future.

This again is dependant on my theory that the entire space-time continuum (for lack of a better label) is one great system that we simple, physical beings experience in a very limited and linear way.

We already know that gravity affects time just as it does light, which supports the idea that somehow light and time are very interdependant influences in our reality. They may even be the same phenomenon viewed from different perspectives.

In a sense, time travel is real but we simple organisms can only travel physically in one direction at a fixed speed. We can of course time travel a little bit by moving away from large gravitational masses (time passes slower for astronaughts in orbit but it is barely detectable) or by using the external energies provided by extreme gravitational forces (sling shot off the event horizon of a black hole for instance).

However, I think the most realistic method of time travel would involve converting our physical form to energy and somehow exchanging that energy with an equal amount of energy from the point in time we wish to travel too.

Since matter (and energy for that matter) can't be created or destroyed (only converted into other forms) you can't remove yourself from one point in time and add yourself to another without making an equal exchange of matter/energy.

Whew, I'm glad I got that off my chest.

-420
« Last Edit: March 28, 2005, 02:18:20 PM by 420 »

Offline Mo

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Time Travel
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2005, 02:17:51 PM »
Let's see what Carl Sagan had to say on this matter.

Offline 420

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Time Travel
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2005, 02:18:45 PM »
Quote
Let's see what Carl Sagan had to say on this matter.
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Does it involve him saying "billions and billions"?

Offline Mo

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Time Travel
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2005, 02:22:08 PM »
Quote
Does it involve him saying "billions and billions"?
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Haven't read it all myself  :P

Offline 420

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Time Travel
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2005, 03:43:39 PM »
Quote
Let's see what Carl Sagan had to say on this matter.
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Looks like Carl Sagan agrees with me for the most part! I'm not surprised though, he is a pretty bright dude. Hee hee.

-420

Trizzie D

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Time Travel
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2005, 05:36:13 PM »
This subject will go in circles as it did when it was taking place on GodSpire. All these theories people desperately want to believe but nobody is currently sure on whats right to believe. I say we just throw this subject in the toilet and move on.

Offline Mo

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Time Travel
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2005, 05:53:55 PM »
Everything I posted is proven scientific fact.  So nothing really to argue about :D

Offline Tea-cup

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Time Travel
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2005, 06:05:46 PM »
@Mercy

I was talking about going in a circle around the earth at 1/3 of the lightspeed.

If you know some physics, then you probably know that going in a circle requires a force. And a force gets a reaction. (newton) And a force needed to have an object as big as the human body in a circular path around the earth at 1/3 of the lightspeed would be gigantic. (probably more than enough to lift a block of flats out of the atmosphere). The reaction force that works on you body, having the same size (opposite direction), and makes you as thin as a pancake (if not worse). Healthy :P

Btw, I can calculate these things, but as well I can make a mistake in my reasoning. Feel free to correct me.

Going in a straight line will only give a force when you accelerate, but again, if you don't like to get reduced to a bloody pancake, that acceleration may not be too high. To get 1/3 of the lightspeed you probably will have to accelerate a long time, and use an insane amount of energy to do this. And if I remeber Einsteins his theory well, then how faster you go, how more force is needed to have the same acceleration. You gain mass. (this might only be true near to lightspeed, can't remeber well) Finally this would rezult in a very small acceleration I think. As well because the drive probably won't meet the requirements, as the fact that you probably would try to avoid pancakes when your mass gets higer because the speed you're moving with. (how more mass, how bigger a force gets with a given acceleration, pretty much a reazon why you never will get lightspeed)

And then you have to slow down, and speedup back to the earth, and slow down again. (crashing to get back to zero isn't a option I bet) I doubt if this is something you can do in a lifetime, and if you would preserve yourself to survive it. Then you can as well stay on the earth and just wait. (or sleep, depending on what you would use)

This isn't anything for the near future anyway. And busy as mankind is now, this probably will never be possible.

About what Carl Sagan says, more specific, about those wormholes,

I wouldn't know what kind of energy would be needed to make something like that big enough to get a human trough it. If the human not just gets reduced to the parts an atom is made of to start with when it enters the hole. (how you enter anyway) Some physicists suggested the use of blackholes. But I think (who I'm I :P) that means something like going to a extended version of the pancake story. I wouldn't like to get packed together into a space smaller than an atom.

I would try to use those theorys to upgrade and reduce the latency between the communication connections from continent to continent, that seems me something realizable in the far furture (you only have to move electrons, not whole atom structures), and actually, it's something more usefull that doing suicide attempt in the hope of doing space or timetravels.

I love science, and I really need to learn more, guess why I posted that "Lower activity from my side." topic.

And again, feel free to correct or add things, I'd love to see them.

@Mo
You can argue about scientific facts, it wouldn't be the first time that something gets proven as being false or not correct. Like the laws of newton for example, those aren't correct when you look inside and atom or when you get close to lightspeed.

-Mel
« Last Edit: March 28, 2005, 06:35:32 PM by Tea-cup »

Offline Mo

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Time Travel
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2005, 06:10:25 PM »
Quote
@Mo
You can argue about scientific facts, it wouldn't be the first time that something gets proven as being false or not correct. Like the laws of newton for example, those aren't correct when you look inside and atom or when you get close to lightspeed.

-Mel
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Newton never conducted experiemts on atoms nor did he have a particle accelerator.
Everything I mentioned has been proven via experimentation aboard the space shuttle.

The space shuttle travels very fast, clocks have been obvserved to have slowed down in accordance with time dialation.

Offline Tea-cup

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Time Travel
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2005, 06:35:13 PM »
@Mo
And now I say, that they can't make clocks well enough to measure it correctly :D
(joking)
Quote
You can argue about scientific facts, it wouldn't be the first time that something gets proven as being false or not correct. Like the laws of newton for example, those aren't correct when you look inside and atom or when you get close to lightspeed.
I didn't say that specific to your earlyer post, just in general. And for that example of newton, it's not because he can't look into the atoms (hey we still can't really see in it you know, we use ways around for it), that his theory isn't proven wrong in some situations. And they still teach it and use it because it is correct as long you don't have certain extremes.

And newton at least could see how it was, if you talk about timetravel or wormholes, then I'm sure the poeple talking about it, didn't see it. They just speculate useing the theorys like they exist now.

-Mel
« Last Edit: March 28, 2005, 06:36:12 PM by Tea-cup »

Offline 420

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Time Travel
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2005, 07:56:15 PM »
Quote
This subject will go in circles as it did when it was taking place on GodSpire. All these theories people desperately want to believe but nobody is currently sure on whats right to believe. I say we just throw this subject in the toilet and move on.
[snapback]20396[/snapback]

Well, if you look at the last question on that Carl Sagan link, you'll see that one could say that simply by discussing the possibilities and limitations of time travel we are in fact taking part in the conceptual stage of development. The technology used for time travel would have to be so advanced that those temporal scientists of the future would look back at this thread as a ground breaking conceptual thesis!

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

-420

Offline Wobbles

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Time Travel
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2005, 11:13:39 PM »
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Time isn't time.

If it were there, and time travel were possible, nothing would exist because SOMEONE throughout the course of history would go back and kill everything before it happened but they'd be dead before they could make it happen and all that nifty stuff.
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