LucidMagic.net

Neverwinter Nights => NwN General => GodSpire General => Topic started by: Tea-cup on October 01, 2004, 03:34:48 PM

Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Tea-cup on October 01, 2004, 03:34:48 PM
I like the idea of it, about starting duel whit some more restictions. But I don't like how negatif poeple act to hiders and so because they can use hips. They can be as fair as any other build in a duel. And some just generalize it by saying they all suxx. (just taking hiders as example) I useual don't use wof/harm/conseal/damage spells while I can, because hips on it's own already makes the char fine enough, my idea behind it is, if they can spot me I use somthing else, if they counter that, I use a other things and so on. How closer the duel how better. Just a example again.

I think a load of poeple in gs already try to make duel as close and fair as possible. That start whit: "
we will prolly use the farm area for us legit duels" sounds like, "the others are illigal", really didn't like that. (and yes maybe i'm the only one who understood it like that) Anyway, if they idea is to have fair duels, i'm for it. If it's to start a guild that see themself as better and can't stand poeple who use other things, nothx, but it won't be that, no? :P

note: Anyone knows a good way to chill down? I really need that I think.
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Throbblefoot on October 01, 2004, 04:03:36 PM
I split this out of the Xen's experiment thread becuase they asked us to only post in that thread if we're interested and support the idea. So as 420 suggested, anyone who wants to complain about the group or "cheapness" please do so here!

Thanks,

Throbblefoot
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: bus driver on October 01, 2004, 04:47:57 PM
Theres so many things you can do VS hips/hiders its not funny........but people just want there easy kills.
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Blood Angel on October 01, 2004, 04:49:15 PM
Good way to chill down, well I like playing counter-strike because I find it a great relief to kill ppl (in-game), much like hitting a pillow.
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Tea-cup on October 01, 2004, 05:14:36 PM
Quote
I split this out of the Xen's experiment thread becuase they asked us to only post in that thread if we're interested and support the idea.
[snapback]7980[/snapback]
I did try to make myself more clear about my post in xens experiment. And things like "I like the idea" or "I'm for it" not really say I don't support it, isn't it? Anyway, I think I better shut up. Each time I post, I feel like I better didn't post at all. Got nothing usefull to say anyway so I won't reply more.  :(
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Xen on October 01, 2004, 05:37:15 PM
Well, I'll say it again. I formed it to find other interesting ways to duel, Rather than the same old shit day in day out.
and my idea was to have a duel using nothing more than buffs and standard damaging spells melee etc. No sneaking or any Dissabling spells, Knocking down is okay but once per duel.

But spells such as, WoF, Hell Ball or SoV etc arnt to be used, As WoF Blinds Hell Ball cant be resisted and SoV stuns.

It was just an idea people took in all directions other than what it was intended.

-Xen
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Throbblefoot on October 01, 2004, 06:33:09 PM
My intention was to split the discussion between "i don't like" and "i'd like to." It seemed the people who were trying to form a group kept gettng detailed by people who disagreed with them. Now the person who wants to make the group is derailing the thread for people who want to discuss cheapness.....

Bah. And also Meh. Like Tea-cup said, I think I should have butted out in the first place.

-Throbblefoot
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: EL CABAZONO on October 01, 2004, 07:14:52 PM
Harper scout is overpowered ban it
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: bus driver on October 01, 2004, 08:41:43 PM
Thats all funny now but just wait till you get beat by a harper............then it wont be so funny.
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Illutian on October 01, 2004, 11:09:31 PM
umm...here's a question. and plz don't get offended(i'm sure it's not appilcable to anyone here, from what i've seen you all fight with honor) but why is every1 being a bunch of panzies. i fight the so called "lame classes" and i never whine, my philosphy is if you got it(and it's not illegal as set forth by the GS rules) then use it. you make the agreement to use the "lame stuff" b4 the battle...if you loose big deal you just need to get a better character....STOP WHINING AND PLAY THE DAMN GAME <_<
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Lance Ezekiel on October 01, 2004, 11:34:33 PM
^Nice
Any who if your looking for a new way to duel try summoner battles

The Rules:
1:You each get 6 summons a pece to use
2:You cant use the Same summon more then once
3:You can buff summons
4: No BBOD
5:Duel in the farm or Angband
6:If your sommon gos for your oponent call it back ( use the follow comand)

There is more but i cant remember them.
Porps to bus it was his idea i just helped

Summoner Duels ©the Southin hemisfear (spellt Wrong) :P
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: maverick on October 01, 2004, 11:41:52 PM
why are u so hard on the sov spell
it can be resisted with will simple as that

harm can be countered with reflex i think (i never check)
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Anheg on October 01, 2004, 11:49:54 PM
I agree with Khad, i will duel anyone ( exept Epid Dodgers ) if the lag permits it. I wont duel a cleric if the lag is nearly unbearable, but that is about it.

*I hate Pokemon*
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: iceycool56 on October 01, 2004, 11:51:16 PM
Quote
^Nice
Any who if your looking for a new way to duel try summoner battles

The Rules:
1:You each get 6 summons a pece to use
2:You cant use the Same summon more then once
3:You can buff summons
4: No BBOD
5:Duel in the farm or Angband
6:If your sommon gos for your oponent call it back ( use the follow comand)

There is more but i cant remember them.
Porps to bus it was his idea i just helped

Summoner Duels �??�?�©the Southin hemisfear (spellt Wrong) :P
[snapback]8016[/snapback]

Summoner Battles!!  It's almost like Pokemon!!
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: BzK on October 02, 2004, 12:46:37 AM
Quote
^Nice
Any who if your looking for a new way to duel try summoner battles

The Rules:
1:You each get 6 summons a pece to use
2:You cant use the Same summon more then once
3:You can buff summons
4: No BBOD
5:Duel in the farm or Angband
6:If your sommon gos for your oponent call it back ( use the follow comand)

There is more but i cant remember them.
Porps to bus it was his idea i just helped

Summoner Duels �??�?�©the Southin hemisfear (spellt Wrong) :P
[snapback]8016[/snapback]

That sounds strangely fun.  I might have to make a summoner/buffer.  LoL
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Illutian on October 02, 2004, 08:53:31 AM
Quote
^Nice
Any who if your looking for a new way to duel try summoner battles

The Rules:
1:You each get 6 summons a pece to use
2:You cant use the Same summon more then once
3:You can buff summons
4: No BBOD
5:Duel in the farm or Angband
6:If your sommon gos for your oponent call it back ( use the follow comand)

There is more but i cant remember them.
Porps to bus it was his idea i just helped

Summoner Duels �??�?�©the Southin hemisfear (spellt Wrong) :P
[snapback]8016[/snapback]

**INTRODUCING COCK FIGHTS AT GODSPIRE**
-Check local listings for times and dates.
-Must have trained beast
-Beasts must be inspected before allowed to fight


  :P OOOoooooooooooo, i could do the Advertising  :D
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Celestial1 on October 02, 2004, 12:57:00 PM
BvB Battling Rules link (http://lucidmagic.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=567&pid=8119&st=0&#entry8119)

Viva la BvB Battles! >:]
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Shildows_Nwn on October 02, 2004, 01:04:00 PM
Quote
the beast battles! (BvB Battles!!! good name... *writes it down*)


here are some rules (that are possible. i'm open to changes!!!):


Quote

1) Must be full caster (includes paladin for pally buff spells)

2) minor-ish heals only (1-3 allowed)

3) 6 summons (or another amount)

4) the elemental swarm (cleric spell lvl 9 i believe?)... either counts as four summons or (preferably) is not allowed.

5) No killing the actual opponent, just the opponents monsters (pull back with follow command and step back if they go for the opponent!!)

6) Familiars are allowed. They are one of the best things to have as a summoner as (you can personally control them and [arcane only i think??]) they level up as you do. These types of summons are only allowed 1 or 2 times. (includes the divine familiar things)

7) These duels should be allowed anywhere, as long as the opponents are far away and the beasts are close to eachother.

8) Please keep all summons handy on quickbar, we don't all want to be waiting to see the next portion!


I will make a topic about it soon, please... let me do it.

PS. i will make my summoner soon... i will be on GS sometimes... bring a summoner on!!! ;)
[snapback]8050[/snapback]
kewl!
very kewl
i wanna do it
but now all i need is to learn how to make an untimete level 20 summon.
make a little arena for it! :D
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: AngelsWings on October 03, 2004, 07:40:53 AM
Quote
my idea behind it is, if they can spot me I use somthing else
[snapback]7978[/snapback]

yes, u can blind them so they will cant spot u  :lol:

Quote
That start whit: "
we will prolly use the farm area for us legit duels" sounds like, "the others are illigal", really didn't like that.
[snapback]7978[/snapback]

I didnt want to say that, but u are right it sounds like that....
who think that excuse me plz.  I dont really think it  :)
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Ludo on October 04, 2004, 10:45:53 PM
Quote
Well, I'll say it again. I formed it to find other interesting ways to duel, Rather than the same old shit day in day out.
and my idea was to have a duel using nothing more than buffs and standard damaging spells melee etc. No sneaking or any Dissabling spells, Knocking down is okay but once per duel.

But spells such as, WoF, Hell Ball or SoV etc arnt to be used, As WoF Blinds Hell Ball cant be resisted and SoV stuns.

It was just an idea people took in all directions other than what it was intended.

-Xen
[snapback]7997[/snapback]

Quite frankly I don't think anyone should disable certain abilities because they think they are cheap...  Everything has a counter..  For instance.. Remove Blindess.. or Dispel gets rid of WoF... Gust of Wind/Dispel gets rid of SoV/You can cast energy buffs to take absolutly 0 damage from Hellball..  I think it would be more productive for people to stop complaining and start thinking..
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: 420 on October 05, 2004, 01:04:58 PM
Quote
Quite frankly I don't think anyone should disable certain abilities because they think they are cheap...  Everything has a counter..  For instance.. Remove Blindess.. or Dispel gets rid of WoF... Gust of Wind/Dispel gets rid of SoV/You can cast energy buffs to take absolutly 0 damage from Hellball..  I think it would be more productive for people to stop complaining and start thinking..
[snapback]8179[/snapback]

I find it interesting that everyones solution for combating "cheap" tactics is to use a spell caster...

Some of us don't want to only use spell casters for duels.

People think that putting restrictions above and beyond GodSpire rules will limit builds. The truth is, by restricting "cheap" tactics, you open up a whole world of new builds that weren't viable before because they don't have access to Remove Blindness, Dispel, Gust of Wind and "Energy Buffs".

Sorry, but that is just the truth, restricting "cheap tactics" unrestricts dueler builds, it's simple logic.

-420

Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: bus driver on October 05, 2004, 02:44:51 PM
Most people use hell ball on themselves making it instant leaving you with no chance to dispel the ground or cast dmg resist.
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Ludo on October 05, 2004, 04:04:15 PM
Quote
Quote
Quite frankly I don't think anyone should disable certain abilities because they think they are cheap...  Everything has a counter..  For instance.. Remove Blindess.. or Dispel gets rid of WoF... Gust of Wind/Dispel gets rid of SoV/You can cast energy buffs to take absolutly 0 damage from Hellball..  I think it would be more productive for people to stop complaining and start thinking..
[snapback]8179[/snapback]

I find it interesting that everyones solution for combating "cheap" tactics is to use a spell caster...

Some of us don't want to only use spell casters for duels.

People think that putting restrictions above and beyond GodSpire rules will limit builds. The truth is, by restricting "cheap" tactics, you open up a whole world of new builds that weren't viable before because they don't have access to Remove Blindness, Dispel, Gust of Wind and "Energy Buffs".

Sorry, but that is just the truth, restricting "cheap tactics" unrestricts dueler builds, it's simple logic.

-420
[snapback]8200[/snapback]

80-90% of all builds have some sort of spell casting ability..  and if you have a pure fighter or whatever and you don't want to duel a caster... THEN DON'T.. If you don't want to fight people that use supposed "cheap spells" and crap.. simply don't fight them..
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: 420 on October 05, 2004, 06:42:39 PM
Quote
80-90% of all builds have some sort of spell casting ability..  and if you have a pure fighter or whatever and you don't want to duel a caster... THEN DON'T.. If you don't want to fight people that use supposed "cheap spells" and crap.. simply don't fight them..
[snapback]8213[/snapback]


Yes, you see the point. That is exactly what the original topic that this thread spun off from was about:

"Xen's Idea" -  we want to form a group of players who don't want to fight players that use cheap tactics, so we won't.

So, we are all in agreement! Perfect, see you all in the Farm for some non-cheap duels!

-420
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Maxou on November 05, 2004, 01:08:41 PM
Hmm can u say me an EXACT definition of being cheap in a duel ?

I have tons of question .... is dev crit cheap ? is dispell cheap ( someone told me that dispell was cheap because I dispelled his/her buffs ) ? is CASTER cheap ? is taunt cheap ? is bard cheap ? .... I can continue ....
Then can you tell me what it is not to be cheap ?   :rolleyes:
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Tea-cup on November 05, 2004, 01:45:25 PM
Quote
Hmm can u say me an EXACT definition of being cheap in a duel ?

I have tons of question .... is dev crit cheap ? is dispell cheap ( someone told me that dispell was cheap because I dispelled his/her buffs ) ? is CASTER cheap ? is taunt cheap ? is bard cheap ? .... I can continue ....
Then can you tell me what it is not to be cheap ?   :rolleyes:
[snapback]9351[/snapback]
What someone else thinks that is cheap depends on that 'someone else' There isn't a standard definition. It even depends on the chars. But it's not that hard to feel if you are beeing lame/cheap or the other is. A good player knows how to play fair.

-Mel
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: 420 on November 05, 2004, 03:14:43 PM
Quote
Hmm can u say me an EXACT definition of being cheap in a duel ?
[snapback]9351[/snapback]

Check out the first post of this thread:

Xen's Idea Thread (http://lucidmagic.com/index.php?showtopic=553)

That thread is the reason this one got started.

-420
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Pang on November 05, 2004, 03:25:18 PM
Quote
Quote
I split this out of the Xen's experiment thread becuase they asked us to only post in that thread if we're interested and support the idea.
[snapback]7980[/snapback]
I did try to make myself more clear about my post in xens experiment. And things like "I like the idea" or "I'm for it" not really say I don't support it, isn't it? Anyway, I think I better shut up. Each time I post, I feel like I better didn't post at all. Got nothing usefull to say anyway so I won't reply more.  :(
[snapback]7993[/snapback]

I have this feeling like uhm in every post I post :D
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Maxou on November 05, 2004, 04:38:32 PM
I read the whole thread 420 . It fastly goes off topic .
In my opinion everychar is cheap in his own way .

Mel > Then I must admit I am not a good player .... I always thought of dispell fair , just like bard or whatever ... but I asked the question cause some people got angry when I dueled them because I dispelled them .
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Blood Angel on November 05, 2004, 05:38:05 PM
some ppl don't like that they're dispelled that's just the way it is. I get mad if I fight mages and they dispell everything with a mord and I have to dispell their acid sheat with 5 dispells. That's a situation I wish the dispells just worked properly instead of dispelling 1 buff on ground, atleast the mage can't dispell my buffs and if he uses acid sheat I have a perfect excuse for losing, and it would be so true!
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Hydros on November 08, 2004, 01:30:10 PM
Agree Khad. This is nothing more then a whiner thread  <_<
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: 420 on November 08, 2004, 02:47:56 PM
Quote
Agree Khad. This is nothing more then a whiner thread  <_<
[snapback]9801[/snapback]

Exactly, that's why it was split off from the "Xen's Idea" topic.

-420
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: gashmo on November 09, 2004, 06:20:52 PM
i agree with bloodangel and maxou
there is nothing really "cheap" in any duel provided it works
sure u r annoyed at first maybe, but then
we can script right?.. if it is so totally broken then we fix it

but if we dont encourage people to try evverything.. then we wont know all the niggly and fun bits (or the "broken" bits) anyway.

so more fun all round to have sneakers, wofers and whatever that last one was yup...

(personally i hate g sanc and sds.. but heck they have their day)
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Xen on November 09, 2004, 06:48:34 PM
Ok, This is fucking rediculouse, READ this time k Im drunk mind the spelling:

I AINT SAYING ANYONE IS CHEAP, I mearly said, We should make a lil group that only use Damageing spells, No Status effect spells, and Basic offencive tactics.

Nothing that cause's: The player to loose sight (WoF, Hiding) Knocked down more than once(Hell Ball is included, Because it cannot be resisted)
I dunno what ever, Cant be bothered typing lol.

Basicly, I aint bitching about anyones builds, Only thing I find interesting is why people dont put any thaught into builds anymore. Every Joe Blogs and his Dog can make a WoF'er/Hider/Hell Baller.

What happened to tha strait Monks and STR palys with just buffs and Taunt/KD or like the Kick ass Druids, Dexers etc etc. The chars we used ta see. I dunno they might be there now havent been on ina while.

Later, Tired.
-Xen
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: 420 on November 09, 2004, 07:28:45 PM
Quote

What happened to tha strait Monks and STR palys with just buffs and Taunt/KD or like the Kick ass Druids, Dexers etc etc. The chars we used ta see. I dunno they might be there now havent been on ina while.

[snapback]10154[/snapback]

420 - Level 40 pure monk

Joe Fixit - Weapon Master STR fighter with no casting ability

Zarathustra Zoroaster - Cleric No Epic Spells, doesn't use WoF

Girdle of Melian - Zen Archer

AllYourBaseAreBelongToUs - Automatic Still Spell, Heavy Armor wizard (has HellBall but never uses it cause it lags out my sad computer)

Godspire is back up, I'm waiting for some "Xen-Duels"!

-420
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Blood Angel on November 09, 2004, 08:27:21 PM
Dawn The Lionheart, my char, has been in the reserve for quite a while now. Simple taunting bard with a longsword (don't want a scimmi cuz longswords look cool). Only good duels I've had with that char is against BzK cuz he had a str char on once or twice too.

went to the farm very few times but didn't really expect to find anyone anyway. You are tho giving me some ideas for building purposes....
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Talon on November 09, 2004, 08:46:42 PM
Quote
some ppl don't like that they're dispelled that's just the way it is. I get mad if I fight mages and they dispell everything with a mord and I have to dispell their acid sheat with 5 dispells. That's a situation I wish the dispells just worked properly instead of dispelling 1 buff on ground, atleast the mage can't dispell my buffs and if he uses acid sheat I have a perfect excuse for losing, and it would be so true!
[snapback]9395[/snapback]

Umm.....
If the dispels worked 'properly', then they would still dispel all your buffs with mords. Only difference would be that you wouldnt have a hope in hell at dispellling anyone with 23+ caster levels though....
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Anheg on November 09, 2004, 08:52:41 PM
Does someone have a book of NWN equations to figure all the stuff with? Or is that just talon?


lol, Talon...a member...?
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Blood Angel on November 09, 2004, 08:53:06 PM
O.o if they worked properly I'd still be using the lvl 31 cleric guy, then I've got a dc of uhm 31+11 against the dispell (mord), 20+20 :)

plz don't tell me I'm wrong on my own dc :( hate when I read rules the wrong way... upside down from the left corner :P lol.... guess that's kinda the right way tho :D
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: Elessar Telrunya on November 09, 2004, 09:18:52 PM
OK! Well, a while ago 420 said something along the lines of "Porn is in the eye of the beholder(no not the monster, the other kind)" now replace "porn" with "cheapness" and you have what everyone is complaining about. I mean come on! You're practically saying that all these "cheap" builds are bug abuses and that is why they win all the time(well not all the time) so get a grip on yourselves! its just a build. don't duel them if you must but frankly I am taking a stand now to duel anyone who wishes it unless they truely abuse a bug.


Also:
Lady Alasse: Dex AA, w/True Strike and is a spotter; Weakness: her strength, and can be easily dispelled of true strike.
Vladamir(Monk): Monk Hider(mostly dex monk) w/high stuning fist dc(i think); weakness: spotters, high wisdom chars and casters
Vladamir(Mage): Heavy Armor PM Mage, more adept at fighting meelees; weakness: other casters and high AB and health chars
Vladamir(Meelee): Whip Master w/True Strike and small shield; weakness: high ab and ac chars
Danny: Level 20 Cleric, sometimes uses wof and usually a sov; weakness: true mages
Little Alasse: hider slinger, strong sd, high shadow daze DC; weakness: spotters and high wisdom chars

as you see all of my chars have flaws that i intend to be there. ofcourse most of them i need to remake soon but allwell :)


-Lord Elessar
Title: Build/Cheapness Discussion
Post by: gashmo on November 09, 2004, 09:54:19 PM
Oh yeah Xen

i didnt mean to suggest you were saying those builds were cheap in a bad way...
but i gues si came acros sliek that..

Xen has a point. You see, way back in the days before players bothered about taunt and wof etc, there was such a thing as fiddling with the toolset to find every tweak you could find. for example, sometimes stacking ac bonuses would work on glove sbut not on belt etc etc, or you can get one more ac out of a weapon instead of putting it on something else etc etc

Those were the days of real pursit duellers - guys who looked down upon the tauners wofers and sds because they could slay them. Now thos eknights have ridden to another war, we are just playing with the other bit sof nwn we didnt explore : wof, taunt etc.

And yes, it is fine to make a great guild of players who never use those alternative tactics!