LucidMagic.net
Neverwinter Nights => NwN General => Topic started by: Elessar Telrunya on June 25, 2004, 10:34:26 AM
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What is the point of 12ac-20ac?
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What is the point of 12ac-20ac?
Same reason people buy virtual items and characters for Diablo 2 with real money:
They are too lazy to put any thought, effort or skill into the game.
420
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lol then whats the point of playing if you are gonna be that lazy?
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They want to pretend they're "skilled" and that their 20s aren't luck, they get 20s because of the "build"
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wow thats a sucky excuse don't ya think?
oh and cab i wanna thank you agains for fully explaining to me (yeah i know i'm slow) how to do the dm visual effects and the set appearance...
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I am a 20ac player, and that's not because i'm lazy, thank you for sharing these "opinions"
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I am a 20ac player, and that's not because i'm lazy, thank you for sharing these "opinions"
Then why is it?
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I am a 20ac player, and that's not because i'm lazy, thank you for sharing these "opinions"
Hee hee, fished in!!!
I was just trolling when I said that, but when Talon sees this thread I am sure he will be more than happy to explain the 9AC point of view.
The basic logic is, in GodSpire you can make builds with high enough ab to overcome the highest AC possible. This means, you can make non-caster builds that can hit each other on a roll lower than 20 (an automatic hit).
420
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What is the point of 12ac-20ac?
Same reason people buy virtual items and characters for Diablo 2 with real money:
They are too lazy to put any thought, effort or skill into the game.
420
The same reison why godspire people use 8 ac, there to lazy. 420, 8 ac, 9 ac, 10 ac, 12 ac and 20 ac, there's no difference, you don't like resist they like resist
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Yes exactly.
Well I guess I like 20ac because that's how I learn Nwn. I never played in Sou, I started with Hotu and obviously with 20ac. I've tried 12ac, i even played it for a while but I always return to 20ac. Plus I didn't really approuve when u said it is for lazy ppl because even 20's rule, u still have to think about making a better build then the other. It's not only luck. In 20ac you have to duel the same chars alot so you can actually notice that if you always win, it's because your char build is better. But I do understand your point of view, and yes lower ac and resistance makes it harder to build chars since you have more things to think of into skills and abilities.
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Yes exactly.
Well I guess I like 20ac because that's how I learn Nwn. I never played in Sou, I started with Hotu and obviously with 20ac. I've tried 12ac, i even played it for a while but I always return to 20ac. Plus I didn't really approuve when u said it is for lazy ppl because even 20's rule, u still have to think about making a better build then the other. It's not only luck. In 20ac you have to duel the same chars alot so you can actually notice that if you always win, it's because your char build is better. But I do understand your point of view, and yes lower ac and resistance makes it harder to build chars since you have more things to think of into skills and abilities.
20 ac is just who has more attacks per round and dmg pretty much all there is to 20ac
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I personally think that 20 ac is better than the new 8 ac godspire, but that's just my opinion.
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errmmmm!
Is it 8 ac instead of 9 now? (FUC*, GOTTA REDO ALL MY EQUIPPMENT ONCE I GRET HOME! :()
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lol hydros!
oh and hydros are you back on the computer yet? Nem and I need to show you Rune and a bunch of other places... :P
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No, I will be back tomorrow silly :P... Seriously, is it 8 now? (*CRIES*?)
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I am a 20ac player, and that's not because i'm lazy, thank you for sharing these "opinions"
Hee hee, fished in!!!
I was just trolling when I said that, but when Talon sees this thread I am sure he will be more than happy to explain the 9AC point of view.
The basic logic is, in GodSpire you can make builds with high enough ab to overcome the highest AC possible. This means, you can make non-caster builds that can hit each other on a roll lower than 20 (an automatic hit).
420
Disagree,
If that's the basic logic ... It's not true for all types of char's. GS = balanced pvp for me, as basic logic.
The ac still can be far too high to get hit by anything. Even those aa's whit true strike don't reach it.
There are other ways to get a hit on your oppent on gs, that's the good point.
20 ac is skill too, just not as much as 9ac. 20 rolls isn't 100% luck either. High ac and high ab help, same for a high number of attacks.
And to talk about other things, the dam you do on resist servers is more important than on gs, my gs char wouldn't hurt a fly on a resist server. But the options you have for a good build are so small whit 20ac - 12 ac or resist. That's why 9 is better, I never saw so much diffent build than on gs. And the number of spells that actualy have some effect on the duels are bigger too. Just way more options to use.
It's not only the 9 ac, but also the changes to spells, the restrictions, ect .... that makes godspire's lvl22 items (9ac) system the best for me.
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I personally think that 20 ac is better than the new 8 ac godspire, but that's just my opinion.
There isnt a new godspire...
Its still 9ac
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oh... nevermind then lol
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dude I've been there, and I think it's 9... don't think my ac got fucked over going into the server, atleast I didn't notice any changes
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I am a 20ac player, and that's not because i'm lazy, thank you for sharing these "opinions"
Hee hee, fished in!!!
I was just trolling when I said that, but when Talon sees this thread I am sure he will be more than happy to explain the 9AC point of view.
The basic logic is, in GodSpire you can make builds with high enough ab to overcome the highest AC possible. This means, you can make non-caster builds that can hit each other on a roll lower than 20 (an automatic hit).
420
Quite possibly the most MORONIC thing about 12ac and 20ac is that they continue to use level 40 items.
As I have said a MILLION times before, you MUST use level 22 items to keep the same balance as level 20 PvP.
This will actually mean that the max ac is 9ac, but that, mathematically speaking, is balanced in AB vs AC terms.
By all means the resisters may use resist if they want - godspire grew out of that phase years ago, but feel free to continue what we started 2 years ago if you must.
The fact that we at godspire (who have been Uber, no ILR, no Restrictions level 20, restricted level 20 (no immunes), resist level 20, non-resist level 20, and now non-resist level 20 and 40) feel we have actually advanced past that stage should not affect anyones decision on a server.
Even if your decision would otherwise be wrong :D
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Thing Is You Godspire Players enjoy your type of PvP We Enjoy Ours They Both Rely on The Same Amount Of Skill But of A Diffrent Kind So Stop Saying Us 12-20acers Arnt Skilled Because i Think I Have Proved In GS That I Can Make a Decent Char For There Sure IT May not Win all Duels But it can put up a fight thank you have a nice day :angry:
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I think this discussion should be over by now and that some ppl should realize that perhaps these 12-20ac players do know it's all about 20s, but still feel that it's fun. yes lvl 22 items is mathematically correct, but it's pretty obvious that they won't turn 12-20ac down when they feel that it's fun.
I did once play 12ac and 20ac (but in 20ac I still used 12 :P), it was easy because I was a mage, but still quite hard to kill those with 1000 hp when I only did around 30 dmg.
It's fine that some ppl play one way whereas other ppl play another way, we can't judge each other for playing the game the wrong way, since it's ourselves creating the way we play the game.
I started playing online with only the items I had gained in nwn (I didn't create items), I only used what I had found while playing. Now I got mad because ppl made their own items, but I can't say they're playing the wrong way now can I?
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Seriously, is it 8 now? (*CRIES*?)
Of course not.
...
-Throblefoot
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I think this discussion should be over by now and that some ppl should realize that perhaps these 12-20ac players do know it's all about 20s, but still feel that it's fun.
Unfortunately, they dont realise its all about luck.
Thats probably the thing that frustrates me most about them :(
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Have you nerfed shifters again? Because i went in with my Golem shifter guy and his AC was 60, Its normally 101, What is going on here! :0
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Talon I think you should relax a bit and let players decide what is fun for them and stop all that crap there. I f I think 20ac is more fun for me than gs then that's all. And if gs is better for you then its all good too. Don't say it doesnt take skills in 20ac. Make a char work on it and come duel me, we shall see if it take skills or not..
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I agree! Talon, your in neverwinter nights to have fun arent you? Now I realy know why the resisters hate nonresist, I thougt the reisters started this dislike thing, but I guess it was the nonresisters.
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only reason ive ever taken a swing at a nonresister was when i kept seeing the spam about how us resisters suck and dont have any skill :blink:
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Yes I agree Akuma.
So anyway, tell me when your ready Talon.
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*glances in* LoL you made a whole thread for 12-20 ac
oh well this argument has been going on forever here and no one will ever "win"
the thing is... its a game! purpose: to have fun. i just happened to think 12ac was fun while you guys like 9ac
theres nothing more to say on this topic except... BRING ON 10ac!! :P :lol:
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theres nothing more to say on this topic except... BRING ON 10ac!!
That's IT!!! I have had it! Everyone knows that 11AC ROXORS 10AC BOXORS!!!!
ARGH!!! I'm going to start a "11AC rules 10AC" thread, then you will all be sorry because after that I will post a "5AC/AB rules everything else!" thread!!!!
*Rips off shirt and starts coloring body with green felt pen*
- 420
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Talon I think you should relax a bit and let players decide what is fun for them and stop all that crap there. I f I think 20ac is more fun for me than gs then that's all. And if gs is better for you then its all good too. Don't say it doesnt take skills in 20ac. Make a char work on it and come duel me, we shall see if it take skills or not..
Did you actually read my initial post in this thread, or just trying to stir trouble?
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Yes I agree Akuma.
So anyway, tell me when your ready Talon.
Ah - I see it was the "stir trouble" option, as youve managed to refer to me twice for no apparent reason whatsoever.
Just proves the mentality of these 20ac children if you ask me......
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hasnt this topic been made 5 times already..?
Its been started in about 5 other threads before the webiste crashed or whatever.
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5AC/AB rules everything else!
hell yah back to old school nwn! :D
*Rips off shirt and starts coloring body with green felt pen*
okay you do that.... :blink:
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*thinks 420 has gone crazy* :P
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*thinks 420 has gone crazy* :P
To quote a famous pundit:
"Have I gone insane or have I just gone sane in an insane world?"
- The Tick
OK, back to the topic of this post. "What is the point?"
So, what is the point of this thread?
I think the point is that the "12 AC - 20 AC" forum isn't going to get any constructive strategy discussions or informational threads. The reason for this could be that there isn't any strategy to discuss about 12 - 20 AC builds or duels.
- 420
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there actually is so how bout you GS players waddle back down to your GS section and post there so us 12acers/20acers can have our lil chats about what we do best....
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there actually is so how bout you GS players waddle back down to your GS section and post there so us 12acers/20acers can have our lil chats about what we do best....
Once again Akuma you prove my point, thank you.
- 420
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mouhahaha
isn't Talon the most funny guy!?
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I don't think you can have more self-centered "i believe I am the God" mentality then Talon is hehe It is so funny to read him:P
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I don't think you can have more self-centered "i believe I am the God" mentality then Talon is hehe It is so funny to read him:P
Firstly, in my world I am a god.
What I am not is a stupid little kid who is trying yet again to stir arguments.
Also, dont use quotation marks for something that isnt a quotation.
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there actually is so how bout you GS players waddle back down to your GS section and post there so us 12acers/20acers can have our lil chats about what we do best....
Geez man, at 12ac, the biggest amount of skill you guys 'have', is to have a few bard levels and curse song and taunt.
Then if someone uses remove curse, then you bitch about it.
I mean COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How STUPID can you be????
Thats 12ac for you, you can ONLY get your ab high enough to hit someone by using curse song, and taunt. Then you bitch when someones conc is high, or if they use remove curse/restorations/etc.
20 ac doesnt even have that 'luxury' of reducing someones ac to be anywhere near hittable. So black mamba - and yes this is targetted directly at you - you are just a skilless 20 roller. Please feel free to provide your 20ac chars ab/ac ratio so we can ALL have a good chuckle. Or are you of the opinion that more ab makes you more likely to roll a 20, as another famous member of this forum pointed out only a few months ago.....
And AS for your choice of resist, how come when I made a DD I got bitched at for being cheap. Surely you dont see anything wrong with me reducing the damage i would recieve - you are a bunch of resisters after all......
However (Re: 5ab/ac):
hell yah back to old school nwn!
The ruleset we use at godspire is used to enforce that balance that we had at level 20. So we havent really left oldschool nwn, just extended it into level 40.
Although im not a resist fan, having played it for many months when we werent quite sure what we were doing (early days of nwn), I understand that many of you will refuse to progress with the game. So my suggestion to you, is to try the godspire ruleset but (god forbid) allow resist!!! Shock horror!!!
Actually - in all seriousness, thats exactly what you should be doing. I mean, you guys have crazy ass ILR. Level 40 items are ludicrous. At least you would have some of that "sacrifice aspect" you had at level 20.
Not to mention that 12ac-20ac is skilless :D
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I have a 20AC AA for when I do local vault RPing.
88 AB, 115 AC = if I were to fight myself it'd be 20s.
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So my suggestion to you, is to try the godspire ruleset but (god forbid) allow resist!!! Shock horror!!!
actually i did make a mod with nice restrictions that looked like it had potential to be good and balanced but unfortunately we couldn't find a host :(
still looking for one btw if anyone is interested ^_^
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Have no fear everyone. I will explain this 12-20ac craze and why some like it.
Simple reason...They do not pocess the necessary brain power to contemplate how to build a 9ac no resist char.
Before all you resist kiddies whine that I am calling you stupid, I am not.
It is my opinion that you are all probably between the ages of 8-16 years old and your heads haven't matured yet to our stage. Nothing to be ashamed about, I mean we were all that age once...
When you all grow up into good educations and can do basic math such as subtract ABs from ACs, then I will look forward to seeing you all on Godspire.
Have a nice day :D
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hehhehehehehehehe talon your so funny:P
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I say you like godspire good, i like 20ac good for me
and now we all shut uip cuz this ain't going nowhere lse then bitching other people's opinion. and yes this is for you talon.
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hehhehehehehehehe talon your so funny:P
I know :D
But thank you anyway :)
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I say you like godspire good, i like 20ac good for me
and now we all shut uip cuz this ain't going nowhere lse then bitching other people's opinion. and yes this is for you talon.
Im ot bitching - just pointing out that it was skilless.
Thats a fact, not a flame :)
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Oh come on Talon:P
It's so fun argueing with ya hehe
But ya you kinda bitch at ppl hehe
But I knew it would be a matter of minutes until u reply hehe
Let's just say that both of them 9ac and 20ac is good because it suits different ppl. It's the best AC if it suits you so thats y i say 20ac is best and u say 9ac is best.
But plz don't say it doesnt take skills. Yes it doesnt take less skills then 9ac indeed but it still takes skills to make a good char. Don't you agree on this one?:P
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MO, what you said really sucks "Before all you resist kiddies whine that I am calling you stupid, I am not.
It is my opinion that you are all probably between the ages of 8-16 years old and your heads haven't matured yet to our stage. Nothing to be ashamed about, I mean we were all that age once..."
You don't even know my age.. that's very lame of you
Really sad that some ppl can think the way you do..
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MO, what you said really sucks "Before all you resist kiddies whine that I am calling you stupid, I am not.
It is my opinion that you are all probably between the ages of 8-16 years old and your heads haven't matured yet to our stage. Nothing to be ashamed about, I mean we were all that age once..."
You don't even know my age.. that's very lame of you
Really sad that some ppl can think the way you do..
Heheh what do you mean its' lame?
Ok for the purpose of my study, please inform me as to your age group.
Try and be honest also...
Imagine I am part of some super advanced race who has found an interest in lesser lifeforms and is conducting studies on them.
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mmmmmmmmmk
yes as I mentioned before,
it's lame
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Let's just say that both of them 9ac and 20ac is good because it suits different ppl. It's the best AC if it suits you so thats y i say 20ac is best and u say 9ac is best.
Ok let's just get to the point.
20ac suites you because you are an imbecile.
Talon would you like some more brandy?
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I would enjoy some brandy master mo...and 9 ac is the best, because 20 ac is a no skill involved, all it is, is luck. You just see who can roll the most 20s. ridiculous. morons :) sorry but no offense meant
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o god, so many loosers here
nathan u should do something bout this
lol
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*Pours Mercy some brandy*
I don't know about you Mercy but my exposure to these imbeciles seems to be having an adverse effect on my well-being...Do you know of any spell I could fashion to counter-act this effect?
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o god, so many loosers here
nathan u should do something bout this
lol
What would you like him to do?
Ban all the intelligent members of this forum?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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It seems that two different points are being argued here.
The first is: Does building, equiping and playing 9AC duelers take more skill than 12-20AC?
One side argues that higher than 9AC doesn't take any skill because of the AB/AC ratio. Many formulas, mathmatical equations and hypothetical circumstances have been described to prove this point.
The other side thinks 9AC, 12AC and 20AC all take skill to play. They have yet to provide any solid evidence.
The second point that is trying to be made, is that the 9AC supporters think the 12-20AC people actually lack intelligence. This is probably caused by the 12-20AC supporters lack of evidence in the first argument.
The 9AC people have provided analysis of item costs, restricted properties and spells, AB/AC comparisons for different builds and a lot of other actual effort to support their point. (unfortunatly much of this data was lost after the site went down)
If some people like 12-20AC that's fine but if they are going to argue that it takes skill they will have to provide some sort of solid mathmatical proof.
- 420
EDIT: OH and I still don't see any other threads in the 12-20AC forum that are actually discussing builds, strategy or anything constructive regarding 12-20AC. There is a reason for this I suspect.
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Well said 420.
Would you care to join Talon, Mercy and I in the lounge for some Cubans and brandy?
I suspect we will be waiting a long while for the imbeciles to provide the evidence you seek.
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EDIT: OH and I still don't see any other threads in the 12-20AC forum that are actually discussing builds, strategy or anything constructive regarding 12-20AC. There is a reason for this I suspect.
I submit that there is in fact a third argument going on; the shit-stirring argument, in which:
1. The 12-20AC folk post "You're mean/immature/it's-just-a-game."
2. The 9AC folk post "You're an idiot/show some proof/go back to Russia, hippy!"
3. Throbblefoot kicks back with a bowl of popcorn and laughs.
From the popcorn bowl perspecitve, the 9AC folk are ahead in that, in addition to the stirring shit, they've posted compelling arguments in support of their opinions.
It seems clear that the 12-20AC folk fail to defend their game-play preference because they can't. The million-dollar question is: are they unable to defend it because there is no defense, or because they can't contsruct a logical argument?
(And yes, I know I've joined the shit-stirring argument. Here, *you* take the bowl of popcorn).
-Throbblefoot
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Honestly I like 9AC because it doesn't make it whoever has the most HP and damage and rolled 20's. I used to play 'uber" and it really got old fast. Like the duels were nowhere near as fast paced as GS duels... you can just walk away from it for a minute and probably not be done yet, unless it's a hider or something.. of course they usually have true seeing anyway...
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12-20 AC people must just enjoy going AFK to get X food/drink item duing their 10 minute duels.
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This site really sucks *sry nathan* to many agressive and name calling people. Too many people not capable of accepting opinions of others without having to call them imbecile or morons. I feel like I am posting with 10 years old children. This is really sad Nathan because when you started this site it was a really fun one. No one was dissing anybody when we discussed things.
And for those who act this way, I hope one day you wake up and realize how childish it is and how mean you can be. Insulting people will never get you anywhere. And what you do to people will one day or another always come back to you harder. I hope for you that yuor parents will never take a look on this forum to see how badly they educated you. it will make them very sad.
Farewell
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I hope for you that yuor parents will never take a look on this forum to see how badly they educated you. it will make them very sad.
Thank's for proving my point Black Mamba! You have nothing to offer but flames, no strategy, no statistics, nothing constructive to contribute.
Oh, and the name calling, nice. You spout off about how everyone here are children but you are the one concerned about parents. Sorry, some of us haven't lived with our parents for over a decade. Some of our parents have died from old age.
So, Black Mamba, fuck you, don't you fucking talk about my parents you insipid little fuck.
- 420
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mouhahhahahhahaa
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lol even when ill be 40 ill still be concerned by my parents, i respect them.
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wow so much aggressivity in you 420
haha
it's so funny:P
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The following is a list of constructive posts found by user "Black Mamba":
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hehe yes indeed
i don't really post any constructive stuff
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i never said i was either
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3. Respect the opinions and wishes of others, they are as entitled to them as you are.
Goes to everyone here.