Il start. I hate it when im a monk, and mages use Acid sheith. Pisses me off.
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Il start. I hate it when im a monk, and mages use Acid sheith. Pisses me off.
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Note: It's spelled Shurikens. And yes, using a shuriken or any type of range weapon, i.e. Dart, Bow and Arrows, is a good idea against Acid Sheath. If your a SR monk, most, if not all, of their spells won't hit you. And if they do, your SR is too low and acid sheath won't even matter.
Iron horn... I dislike the spamming of it. And wizards, I like that class more than being a sorc because you learn more spells but hate how I need to set spells :angry:
Il start. I hate it when im a monk, and mages use Acid sheith. Pisses me off.
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I hate it when Monks challenge Mages in general.. What's the point? They can't hit you with spells, so what else would they do?
... Is that mage segregation ? Atm nearly all the mage I see ( expecpt few ones like razor , etc ) uses acid shield vs high sr monks . What can they do other than that ? And if the monk have a ranged weapon .... they simply die .
I am with u shadow for horrid , ice storm spammers when they don't look when they cast .
I would like to create a thread like that for monks ... Atm ALL the builds can be defeated by a monk build . Which is not the case for mage .
People are just getting angry because AC bitches are just hit with an other way than melee / ranged . Too bad .
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Thx for the support Maxou. Um, earlier, did you mean to say "discrimination" and not "segregation"? Segregation is separating ppl.
And, I use acid sheath against SR monks. Because if my spells can't hit, what else can I do? Cast TS and try hitting him with my staff? :D And if they avoid the sheath by using a ranged weapon, kudos to them for thinking smart as opposed to bitching about the sheath.
... Is that mage segregation ? Atm nearly all the mage I see ( expecpt few ones like razor , etc ) uses acid shield vs high sr monks . What can they do other than that ? And if the monk have a ranged weapon .... they simply die .
I am with u shadow for horrid , ice storm spammers when they don't look when they cast .
I would like to create a thread like that for monks ... Atm ALL the builds can be defeated by a monk build . Which is not the case for mage .
People are just getting angry because AC bitches are just hit with an other way than melee / ranged . Too bad .
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Thx for the support Maxou. Um, earlier, did you mean to say "discrimination" and not "segregation"? Segregation is separating ppl.
And, I use acid sheath against SR monks. Because if my spells can't hit, what else can I do? Cast TS and try hitting him with my staff? :D And if they avoid the sheath by using a ranged weapon, kudos to them for thinking smart as opposed to bitching about the sheath.
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Right discrimination :) I've learn a new english word today :P Same in french though :)
mages can be a problem at times *looks at Randomers* but they can be beaten and i hate mage vs mage duels long ass duels
*get rid of mantle
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Getting rid of mantle would make mage dueling pointless
mages can be a problem at times *looks at Randomers* but they can be beaten and i hate mage vs mage duels long ass duels
*get rid of mantle
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Getting rid of mantle would make mage dueling pointless
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It would just be about who's got more HP if that ever happened.
what do i hate about dueling a mage? well, when IM melee, I hate those sheats and ele shield wtf bla bla bla.... everthing that hurts too bad when I hit,but ofcourse... a mage wins with the sheat, opponent wins when mage doesn't, legit tactic.
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Teach me another word > What does mean sheat ?
I don't think opponent wins when a good mage use "legit tactic" . Depends what for u is legit tactic though
Teach me another word > What does mean sheat ?
I don't think opponent wins when a good mage use "legit tactic" . Depends what for u is legit tactic though
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What Blood meant to say was "sheath." As in the spell "Acid Sheath." Also, you misunderstood Blood when he said if a mage doesn't use that spell the opponent would win. So, using that spell is a legit tactic against your opponent.
Teach me another word > What does mean sheat ?
I don't think opponent wins when a good mage use "legit tactic" . Depends what for u is legit tactic though
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What Blood meant to say was "sheath." As in the spell "Acid Sheath." Also, you misunderstood Blood when he said if a mage doesn't use that spell the opponent would win. So, using that spell is a legit tactic against your opponent.
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Oh ok ty :) ph33r my english misunderstanding :D
Shadowfury >> I hate it when a mage fire arrows :D :P
I hate it when people are creating mage char just vs one class .
Like .... 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk for mage duel .... Just like they aren't able to create an "alround" char . Just like ur sorc viper :P
Monks sr are invading GS . Hate that . Mel did create one . Hate that . I saw 4 people that are going to make monk sr . Hate that . :angry2: :angry2: :angry: :angry:
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sr monks? pfft, unless it is mels char then they mostly lose to my mage. and thats without acid sheath. :) - mind you i was flighting, er, someone (cant remember name - not a n00b thou :)) i was winning quite well then he started spamming KD and stunning fist!! needless to say i lost (just) next time that happens the sheath is coming out :D
p.s. i find my mage more fun to play than my Bard AA
I hate it when people are creating mage char just vs one class .
Like .... 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk for mage duel .... Just like they aren't able to create an "alround" char . Just like ur sorc viper :P
Monks sr are invading GS . Hate that . Mel did create one . Hate that . I saw 4 people that are going to make monk sr . Hate that . :angry2: :angry2: :angry: :angry:
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sr monks? pfft, unless it is mels char then they mostly lose to my mage. and thats without acid sheath. :) - mind you i was flighting, er, someone (cant remember name - not a n00b thou :)) i was winning quite well then he started spamming KD and stunning fist!! needless to say i lost (just) next time that happens the sheath is coming out :D
p.s. i find my mage more fun to play than my Bard AA
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Right atm mage battle char are more fun to use than fighter char .
About stunning fist > lvl 2 or 3 spell named clarity :P
Viper creating a mage vs mage only char is just VERY easy it's not like I can't make it . And creating a build vs just one class is just too easy as well .
I hate it when people are creating mage char just vs one class .
Like .... 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk for mage duel .... Just like they aren't able to create an "alround" char . Just like ur sorc viper :P
Monks sr are invading GS . Hate that . Mel did create one . Hate that . I saw 4 people that are going to make monk sr . Hate that . :angry2: :angry2: :angry: :angry:
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sr monks? pfft, unless it is mels char then they mostly lose to my mage. and thats without acid sheath. :) - mind you i was flighting, er, someone (cant remember name - not a n00b thou :)) i was winning quite well then he started spamming KD and stunning fist!! needless to say i lost (just) next time that happens the sheath is coming out :D
p.s. i find my mage more fun to play than my Bard AA
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Right atm mage battle char are more fun to use than fighter char .
About stunning fist > lvl 2 or 3 spell named clarity :P
Viper creating a mage vs mage only char is just VERY easy it's not like I can't make it . And creating a build vs just one class is just too easy as well .
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hmm, clarity sounds very nice :D
and i have seen max beat plenty of pure mages so there is little point (IMO) in making them at all when a char like max's one is all round.
Who's Max?
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Maxou... B)
Who's Max?
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Maxou... B)
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Right .
About acid shield >> This is lame indeed . I only use it vs high monk sr ... and it's to keep them ranged because that way we have same apr . Just too bad I am not a sorc hider like urs James :P
I hate it when people complain about my ice storm dodging when they just have to make a fod to hit me and make the dodge way too dangerous .
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Ice storm: if you miss the person you have really bad aim. I would recomend practicing your acuracy. Because if you cant hit a mage, you got a serious problem!!!
-Viper
I hate it when people complain about my ice storm dodging when they just have to make a fod to hit me and make the dodge way too dangerous .
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Ice storm: if you miss the person you have really bad aim. I would recomend practicing your acuracy. Because if you cant hit a mage, you got a serious problem!!!
-Viper
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i think that people miss because they queue a couple up and target the ground next to the opponent, when he moves, the 2nd storms misses. a valid tactic in my opinion- go max! :)
I hate it when people complain about my ice storm dodging when they just have to make a fod to hit me and make the dodge way too dangerous .
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Ice storm: if you miss the person you have really bad aim. I would recomend practicing your acuracy. Because if you cant hit a mage, you got a serious problem!!!
-Viper
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i think that people miss because they queue a couple up and target the ground next to the opponent, when he moves, the 2nd storms misses. a valid tactic in my opinion- go max! :)
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A good mage Casts only when the oponent has made his move. Not 5 movesin a row.
-Viper
I wonder if this is a good formula for sr checks:
castlevel + feats + a lowering spell +1d10 -vs - the monk's sr
About lowering spells, it are things like mord's and nature's balance that lower sr by 10 or more. It's not ment to stack them btw.
37 + 6 + 10 + 1d10 against a monk whit 57 sr gives 50% change to pierce the sr. I think it's a bit low, maybe changing 1d10 to 1d20, that would make 50% on 62.
Any suggestions?
-Mel
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Mel u're starting with wich lvl of mage ? 1d20 would be cool but that would kill the sr build vs mage I think . Dunno really .
James n' Viper >> that wasn't that . It was total anticipation anyway he was just attacking with ice storm . I just saw like few isaacs and only 2 fod .
I hate it when people complain about my ice storm dodging when they just have to make a fod to hit me and make the dodge way too dangerous .
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Ice storm: if you miss the person you have really bad aim. I would recomend practicing your acuracy. Because if you cant hit a mage, you got a serious problem!!!
-Viper
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i think that people miss because they queue a couple up and target the ground next to the opponent, when he moves, the 2nd storms misses. a valid tactic in my opinion- go max! :)
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A good mage Casts only when the oponent has made his move. Not 5 movesin a row.
-Viper
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hmm, i didnt say this made you a good mage, nor do i stack spells, the point i was making was that people do use this tactic so, max, for example is free to avoid it by running.
this is how people miss with spells, then blame the opponent for it, i dont say that they're skilled however. but they shouldnt blame the players who exploit their shortcoming/s - which was my point from the start
I wonder if this is a good formula for sr checks:
castlevel + feats + a lowering spell +1d10 -vs - the monk's sr
About lowering spells, it are things like mord's and nature's balance that lower sr by 10 or more. It's not ment to stack them btw.
37 + 6 + 10 + 1d10 against a monk whit 57 sr gives 50% change to pierce the sr. I think it's a bit low, maybe changing 1d10 to 1d20, that would make 50% on 62.
Any suggestions?
-Mel
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Mel u're starting with wich lvl of mage ? 1d20 would be cool but that would kill the sr build vs mage I think . Dunno really .
James n' Viper >> that wasn't that . It was total anticipation anyway he was just attacking with ice storm . I just saw like few isaacs and only 2 fod .
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Well you can get 70 sr whit a monk. Maxed mage does go to 65 pierce now. Whit a maxroll. But the not pure casters / sr monks should be balanced. Not really those sr tanks or pierce mages. They have other weaknesses enough.
-Mel
I wonder if this is a good formula for sr checks:
castlevel + feats + a lowering spell +1d10 -vs - the monk's sr
About lowering spells, it are things like mord's and nature's balance that lower sr by 10 or more. It's not ment to stack them btw.
37 + 6 + 10 + 1d10 against a monk whit 57 sr gives 50% change to pierce the sr. I think it's a bit low, maybe changing 1d10 to 1d20, that would make 50% on 62.
Any suggestions?
-Mel
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Mel u're starting with wich lvl of mage ? 1d20 would be cool but that would kill the sr build vs mage I think . Dunno really .
James n' Viper >> that wasn't that . It was total anticipation anyway he was just attacking with ice storm . I just saw like few isaacs and only 2 fod .
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Well you can get 70 sr whit a monk. Maxed mage does go to 65 pierce now. Whit a maxroll. But the not pure casters / sr monks should be balanced. Not really those sr tanks or pierce mages. They have other weaknesses enough.
-Mel
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ok ok - firstly mel - please put the 'h' at the end of the word 'with' whit means something completely different :P
and i like the new system, there arent many pure mages left anymore, and pure SR monks can be wasted using a bit of the old -> Hellball -> TS -> Attack -> Hide -> Attack -> TS (repeat from Hide until one of you is dead) :D
why would you use TS if your a mage that can hide (rolf) :P
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hmm, are you for real? i have a 38AB i can harldy hit a flat footed level 1 char with that: and so i say to you:::
:P
p.s.
with TS, well, mwhahahaha etc..
O.o why would you use melee for a wizard anyway.
wizards are ment to be weak.
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lol
come duel me with your non mage :P
I KNOW MORE ABOUT WIZARDS THEN ANYONE ELSE DOSE :angry2: :angry2: :angry: :excl: :excl: :excl:
SO DON'T GIVE ME ANY BS
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lol
control yourself
and you obviously know nothing about sorc rdd sds then :P
I dislike them
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fine with me,
so, next topic of conversation? :)
Ok..... But whats the point of having a monk with 70 sr? the only thing you can duel with those type of chars is mages. It suks vs anyother class as of what ive seen.
-Viper
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HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHhAHAH !!!!!!
I GET U VIPER I GET U !!!!!
And what's the poing of havig 38 sorc ?? The only thing u can duel with those type of chars is mages . It suck vs anyother class as of what I've seen .
MUHAHAHHAHA .
U'll tell me >> It's for mage duel because mage duel is fun !!
But perhaps for builder who have 70 sr monk it's fun to pwn mage .
ok ok - firstly mel - please put the 'h' at the end of the word 'with' whit means something completely different :P
and i like the new system, there arent many pure mages left anymore, and pure SR monks can be wasted using a bit of the old -> Hellball -> TS -> Attack -> Hide -> Attack -> TS (repeat from Hide until one of you is dead) :D[snapback]12467[/snapback]
You won't even touch a good monk whit a mage. You don't duel my sr monk for example, you can't even hope for getting it injured. That hide/ts trik doesn't works on a good monk .... Whit a few more mage levels and mords you can hit my sr monk on arivs now. But I know, you have to offer a few other things for it. But that's what balanced pvp is about, no perfect uber builds.
Notes: a 38 mage can be alround.
70 sr is a bit useless, 64 is already overkill for 99% of the mages (counting the -10 whit mords in it).
And ts/hide whit a mage can't hit a good monk. Even whit 25 base attack.
-Mel
I was the one complaining with Maxou dodging Ice Storm.
I am sorry for complaining because I was under the assumption that Maxou was using a real mage and I was in a mage duel with him.
In mages duels YOU DO NOT RUN AROUND.
Maxous Sorc build has no real chance of defeating a proper wizard in a magic duel so he has no choice but to run away from ice storm which does 108 dmg to his character.
All these new "battle" mages i am seeing these days are old and stupid builds. It has LONG been know that Sorc's can defeat any other melee or range build. This is why I do not duel with my PM anymore..it's just not fair. There is no real skill behind these multi-classes. Myself and my fellow AoM members have chosen to build mages that solely duel with magic. For this reason there is no real need to waste AC on items or to use tower shields and all that.
In closing I would like to re-itertate that caster dueling is about spells and timing..not about running away from dmg...if you messed your timing up then take the pain.
If someone wishes to disagree with me then go ahead but understand that you don't know what you're talking about.
PS. Max why not get some ice resist??
I'll answer...cause you just like to waste time dueling melee and don't understand the first thing about magic.
Sorry it just pisses me off that there are no real caster on GS anymore.
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Just too bad .
Your ... "definition" of a ... "real mage" could not be mine Mo .
Just accept that other people can have other ideas .
You're not even letting a luck of answering to your post . I don't know what I am talking about . Right . Sry . Man .
Don't worry I'll build a dumb nearly pure mage . To fight ... those ... " proper wizard " with a ... "proper wizard" .
About that timing thing I have something to say though ( even if I don't know what I am talking about ) ... never thought it was an AoM who teached me that ? never thought of what timing it need to dodge ice storm ? never thought u could have used fod to prevent my dodge ?
Let me answer for you ( you answered for me isn't it ? ) > You thought of that but who cares ? MY ICE STORM DOES 108 DMG ON HIM !! Let's use only ice storm yeehaaa !!
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It's something I miss on gs, it's a other way of dueling than the duels whit triks (hide/wof/taunt) or 20 roll duels whit monks. (and I know I'm not good at mage duels :P)
I want to try this on arivs, just to test some idea's:
- lower ac for any sorc or bard or wizard build ( -5 or so )
- working breaches/nature's balance for lowering sr (already running)
- improving dispels DC for higher levels (already running)
You may think clerics builds get to strong then, but I say not because the dispels are imporved. You can rip off a heavy load of buffs whit a single dispel if you're a high level caster. The weak point in cleric builds are their buffs.
This is also good for builds that don't depends on ts or a heavy load of buffs, like some ranger/fighter builds. And about hiders, they always have a weak point in their build, horn, wof, knockdown, 100+ damage icestorm, deva crit, options enough.
I would love to see some poeple their opinion about this. I not really know if -5 ac is a good idea for example.
Side note: I did kill your pm a few times whit a melee kind char mo, some kind of weapmaster, your pm is fair against some builds. But most melee builds will not have a change for 1 single win. And maxou, the old mage duels have something special. You can find anything dull or stupid, starting whit the idea to play a game.
-Mel
ok ok - firstly mel - please put the 'h' at the end of the word 'with' whit means something completely different :P
and i like the new system, there arent many pure mages left anymore, and pure SR monks can be wasted using a bit of the old -> Hellball -> TS -> Attack -> Hide -> Attack -> TS (repeat from Hide until one of you is dead) :D[snapback]12467[/snapback]
You won't even touch a good monk whit a mage. You don't duel my sr monk for example, you can't even hope for getting it injured. That hide/ts trik doesn't works on a good monk .... Whit a few more mage levels and mords you can hit my sr monk on arivs now. But I know, you have to offer a few other things for it. But that's what balanced pvp is about, no perfect uber builds.
Notes: a 38 mage can be alround.
70 sr is a bit useless, 64 is already overkill for 99% of the mages (counting the -10 whit mords in it).
And ts/hide whit a mage can't hit a good monk. Even whit 25 base attack.
-Mel
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to be fair, you seem to be the exception, when ever i have dueled you hider monk i have managed to het it to injured im sure.
anyway it matters not, it works vs a lot of classes
to be fair, you seem to be the exception, when ever i have dueled you hider monk i have managed to het it to injured im sure.
anyway it matters not, it works vs a lot of classes
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I ended barley injured whitout empty body too, but well ... The funny part is, my build is a old very much used build. How I'm the 'exception' then?
-Mel
I was the one complaining with Maxou dodging Ice Storm.
I am sorry for complaining because I was under the assumption that Maxou was using a real mage and I was in a mage duel with him.
In mages duels YOU DO NOT RUN AROUND.
Maxous Sorc build has no real chance of defeating a proper wizard in a magic duel so he has no choice but to run away from ice storm which does 108 dmg to his character.
All these new "battle" mages i am seeing these days are old and stupid builds. It has LONG been know that Sorc's can defeat any other melee or range build. This is why I do not duel with my PM anymore..it's just not fair. There is no real skill behind these multi-classes. Myself and my fellow AoM members have chosen to build mages that solely duel with magic. For this reason there is no real need to waste AC on items or to use tower shields and all that.
In closing I would like to re-itertate that caster dueling is about spells and timing..not about running away from dmg...if you messed your timing up then take the pain.
If someone wishes to disagree with me then go ahead but understand that you don't know what you're talking about.
PS. Max why not get some ice resist??
I'll answer...cause you just like to waste time dueling melee and don't understand the first thing about magic.
Sorry it just pisses me off that there are no real caster on GS anymore.
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Just too bad .
Your ... "definition" of a ... "real mage" could not be mine Mo .
Just accept that other people can have other ideas .
You're not even letting a luck of answering to your post . I don't know what I am talking about . Right . Sry . Man .
Don't worry I'll build a dumb nearly pure mage . To fight ... those ... " proper wizard " with a ... "proper wizard" .
About that timing thing I have something to say though ( even if I don't know what I am talking about ) ... never thought it was an AoM who teached me that ? never thought of what timing it need to dodge ice storm ? never thought u could have used fod to prevent my dodge ?
Let me answer for you ( you answered for me isn't it ? ) > You thought of that but who cares ? MY ICE STORM DOES 108 DMG ON HIM !! Let's use only ice storm yeehaaa !!
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It takes no timing to dodge an area of effect spell.
you know when i am going to cast it and run away.
Why would I use FoD when ice storm does 108 dmg to you because you're too lazy to add ice resist like anyone would.
I am through with you. Your disrespect troubles me.
I've earned my respect..you've earned nothing
to be fair, you seem to be the exception, when ever i have dueled you hider monk i have managed to het it to injured im sure.
anyway it matters not, it works vs a lot of classes
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I ended barley injured whitout empty body too, but well ... The funny part is, my build is a old very much used build. How I'm the 'exception' then?
-Mel
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your the exception in that you survived
and whatever, im not saying my build is good vs anything - you are a lot more experienced than me - you should win :P
anyway this conversation is pointless, peace :)
This is pointless .
Mo > Perhaps I overeacted but I wasn't the one who started with offensive words . Let's ignore each other in a mutual scorn .
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You are henceforth ignored.
STOP! I WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS CRAP. If you have mage issues, just deal with it in the flame wars or something, not in *WHAT I HATE ABOUT MAGES*. About this banning stuff, WE DONT CARE. WE DONT CARE IF YOU SAY BAD WORDS.
Now to the real topic: Ice Storm. If you dodge ice storm this is the real defenition: Your move was shit. You didnt get good timing and you got hit. You have no right to run away, or try to dodge it. If you messed up, its your fault. If he dosent want to use FOD, thats fine. Its a choice of spells. But remember this, if you dodge, and run away because of your mistake, the respect you get for mage dueling is basicaly down to 0.
-Viper
P.S. PLAY NICE!
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exactly
Ice storm: if you miss the person you have really bad aim. I would recomend practicing your acuracy. Because if you cant hit a mage, you got a serious problem!!!
-Viper
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Now to the real topic: Ice Storm. If you dodge ice storm this is the real defenition: Your move was shit. You didnt get good timing and you got hit. You have no right to run away, or try to dodge it. If you messed up, its your fault. If he dosent want to use FOD, thats fine. Its a choice of spells. But remember this, if you dodge, and run away because of your mistake, the respect you get from other mages goes basicaly down to 0.
-Viper
P.S. PLAY NICE!
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So wait... I'm a little confused. Are you pro-dodging or anti-dodging? I'm confused since you posted twice on that issue :glare:
I want to add that taking a lot of ice resist is as lame as doging the icestorms and completly ruins the druids only real offensif spell. I would take ice resist to the point icestorm does about the same damage as fod. 30 ice resist or so.
If doge isn't the same as taking a load of iceresist, the point of 'a hit is a hit, you made a mistake' doesn't makes sence. Then you go out from the point that it's build like that, but a mage vs mage is build to get killed by his low ac. You would like someone trowing darts in a mage vs mage?
And if you can't agree whit this you're just defining the rules of a mage duel so that they fit your way of dueling and your char the best and give you the most change to win. It's just a 'I want to win' argument about the dogging then.
So, is a load of iceresist lame? It's a old topic and I want to know...
-Mel
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It's not lame...you need a lot of feats to get very high ice resist. at least 6 for 60 resist. So it's not lame at all.
Also why would someone throw darts in a mage duel? Thats just stupid.
i agree with Mo on that mage v mage duel iquestion
u see, in "true" mage duelling
there is NO melee allowed - no summons - no weapons attack
the focus in on geting past mantle
thats what the ture mage pvper is about
that is why true mages - will scorn any duel with a melee based character
this comes from the belief that mages focus on magic. and the knowledge that of course if mages wanted to they can slay a meleer. meleers are below the notice of true mages.
it also comes from the knowledge of how to cast spells properly. most mages today do not know how to speed up or slow down casting. so they wander off into melee builds. it is a shame but yeah a true mage who knows the real ways of how to cast properly will always pierce mantle of noobie mages.
[snapback]12836[/snapback]
About summon never tried that lvl 4 spell or banishment ?
I agree with you exept for summon . But I don't see your point about mages that goes into melee build because they can't "slow down" or "speed up" casting . Can you eplain more please ?
even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .
[snapback]12832[/snapback]
Please use a calculator next time you attempt subtraction.
39 lvl wizard Ice Storm = 108 dmg - 40 cold resist = 68 dmg = X
Issac's = 60 dmg = Y
---> X > Y ---> above comment = false
I want to add that taking a lot of ice resist is as lame as doging the icestorms and completly ruins the druids only real offensif spell. I would take ice resist to the point icestorm does about the same damage as fod. 30 ice resist or so.
If doge isn't the same as taking a load of iceresist, the point of 'a hit is a hit, you made a mistake' doesn't makes sence. Then you go out from the point that it's build like that, but a mage vs mage is build to get killed by his low ac. You would like someone trowing darts in a mage vs mage?
And if you can't agree whit this you're just defining the rules of a mage duel so that they fit your way of dueling and your char the best and give you the most change to win. It's just a 'I want to win' argument about the dogging then.
So, is a load of iceresist lame? It's a old topic and I want to know...
-Mel
[snapback]12772[/snapback]
It's not lame...you need a lot of feats to get very high ice resist. at least 6 for 60 resist. So it's not lame at all.
Also why would someone throw darts in a mage duel? Thats just stupid.
[snapback]12778[/snapback]
Then a hit isn't a hit. I don't get the point of the mage duels then.... If it's the build that matter that much, I see darts as allowed too, because it's your build that miss ac that's hard to get. Like the 60 iceresist would miss on maxou.
I saw a mage duel as something that required timeing, some skill to time as the important thing. If the build is the point of it, I'll just keep useing my 26 mage. It's way better for a mage duel then. Sadly. The timeing won't matter when you duel it.
-Mel
My build wasn't mage vs mage . It was mage vs all build . Like Mo said that's why I runned from ice storm . Just fight an all round try mage in a mage duel vs a mage vs mage only ( Edit : Dunno if that means anything . Excuse my poor engish ) . You'll see my point .
6 feats for ice resist is low in a pure mage vs mage build . I mean I made a 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk ( ok here goes originality :P ) >> it was really easy to build and I got 6 epic cold resist , decent hp , and 3 epics spells . 6 epic cold resist is a waste of feats > even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .
Edit : Mel they are right atm . Mage vs mage char is not mage vs cleric , nor druid . And if you wanna fight a caster cleric/druid being a mage you'll hardly need epic ice cold resist . What I do hate about mage is that they are too powerfull vs caster cleric/druid . Expet if the clerics/druids use the called "lame stuff" >> stuff that a lot of clerics/druid won't use . But if you are a mage and fight vs a cleric/druid caster just accept harm , wof , etc . You just sucked at remantling that's all .
[snapback]12832[/snapback]
I would like to see balanced pvp, sorry.
-Mel
My build wasn't mage vs mage . It was mage vs all build . Like Mo said that's why I runned from ice storm . Just fight an all round try mage in a mage duel vs a mage vs mage only ( Edit : Dunno if that means anything . Excuse my poor engish ) . You'll see my point .
6 feats for ice resist is low in a pure mage vs mage build . I mean I made a 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk ( ok here goes originality :P ) >> it was really easy to build and I got 6 epic cold resist , decent hp , and 3 epics spells . 6 epic cold resist is a waste of feats > even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .
Edit : Mel they are right atm . Mage vs mage char is not mage vs cleric , nor druid . And if you wanna fight a caster cleric/druid being a mage you'll hardly need epic ice cold resist . What I do hate about mage is that they are too powerfull vs caster cleric/druid . Expet if the clerics/druids use the called "lame stuff" >> stuff that a lot of clerics/druid won't use . But if you are a mage and fight vs a cleric/druid caster just accept harm , wof , etc . You just sucked at remantling that's all .
[snapback]12832[/snapback]
I would like to see balanced pvp, sorry.
-Mel
[snapback]12872[/snapback]
You forget that this game is based on D&D. In which case there are no characters that can defeat a high level magic user, using magic alone besides another magic user.
Clerics and Druids are built so that their magic abilities can never match a simillar level mage. This is why Clerics are geared more towards melee and Druids are geared more towards shifting. There is no balance here and this is the way it is supposed to be,
My build wasn't mage vs mage . It was mage vs all build . Like Mo said that's why I runned from ice storm . Just fight an all round try mage in a mage duel vs a mage vs mage only ( Edit : Dunno if that means anything . Excuse my poor engish ) . You'll see my point .
6 feats for ice resist is low in a pure mage vs mage build . I mean I made a 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk ( ok here goes originality :P ) >> it was really easy to build and I got 6 epic cold resist , decent hp , and 3 epics spells . 6 epic cold resist is a waste of feats > even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .
Edit : Mel they are right atm . Mage vs mage char is not mage vs cleric , nor druid . And if you wanna fight a caster cleric/druid being a mage you'll hardly need epic ice cold resist . What I do hate about mage is that they are too powerfull vs caster cleric/druid . Expet if the clerics/druids use the called "lame stuff" >> stuff that a lot of clerics/druid won't use . But if you are a mage and fight vs a cleric/druid caster just accept harm , wof , etc . You just sucked at remantling that's all .
[snapback]12832[/snapback]
I would like to see balanced pvp, sorry.
-Mel
[snapback]12872[/snapback]
You forget that this game is based on D&D. In which case there are no characters that can defeat a high level magic user, using magic alone besides another magic user.
Clerics and Druids are built so that their magic abilities can never match a simillar level mage. This is why Clerics are geared more towards melee and Druids are geared more towards shifting. There is no balance here and this is the way it is supposed to be,
[snapback]12873[/snapback]
I prefer gameplay above those d&d rules. It's nice when you can imporve the game by making it follow the d&d rules, but breaking the game for d&d .. nah, it's called legit balanced pvp anyway, not d&d mod or whatever. Mages that are unbeatable by melee's is so on 20 ac resist servers. There you had those 'perfect' builds everyone had and used. Or monk melee, that happend too.
I like gs for it's amount of unique builds that are worth something in duel. Also, mages aren't superior on gs, but they are easy to win whit, won't deny that. The idea you put there is the opposite of it, it's a duel like a video, whit nothing new in it, no surpizes that can happen ... nothing ...
This is 'the way it is to be'? And who can say it has to be like that, 'god'?
Besides I don't even see a point in mage duels now, because the timing doesn't matters that much, and the idea of 'a hit is a hit' doesn't apply either. I did think that was the point of it. Even don't see why doging isn't allowed...
(see my other post in this thread if you wonder why I say this)
I think I soon will have to agree whit james that the current system is better. I so liked the old mage duels, where timing did matter the most. :(
-Mel
Besides I don't even see a point in mage duels now, because the timing doesn't matters that much, and the idea of 'a hit is a hit' doesn't apply either. I did think that was the point of it. Even don't see why doging isn't allowed...
(see my other post in this thread if you wonder why I say this)
I think I soon will have to agree whit james that the current system is better. I so liked the old mage duels, where timing did matter the most. :(
-Mel
[snapback]12874[/snapback]
Dunno what you're talking about. Timing still matters the most, then i'd say spell strategy matters next then build.
Besides I don't even see a point in mage duels now, because the timing doesn't matters that much, and the idea of 'a hit is a hit' doesn't apply either. I did think that was the point of it. Even don't see why doging isn't allowed...
(see my other post in this thread if you wonder why I say this)
I think I soon will have to agree whit james that the current system is better. I so liked the old mage duels, where timing did matter the most. :(
-Mel
[snapback]12874[/snapback]
Dunno what you're talking about. Timing still matters the most, then i'd say spell strategy matters next then build.
[snapback]12893[/snapback]
It doesn't depends on timeing and 'a hit is a hit' whit the things you say about mage duel. Just real all my posts before in this thread if you wonder what I mean, I'm not typeing it again.
-Mel
Besides I don't even see a point in mage duels now, because the timing doesn't matters that much, and the idea of 'a hit is a hit' doesn't apply either. I did think that was the point of it. Even don't see why doging isn't allowed...
(see my other post in this thread if you wonder why I say this)
I think I soon will have to agree whit james that the current system is better. I so liked the old mage duels, where timing did matter the most. :(
-Mel
[snapback]12874[/snapback]
Dunno what you're talking about. Timing still matters the most, then i'd say spell strategy matters next then build.
[snapback]12893[/snapback]
It doesn't depends on timeing and 'a hit is a hit' whit the things you say about mage duel. Just real all my posts before in this thread if you wonder what I mean, I'm not typeing it again.
-Mel
[snapback]12894[/snapback]
I've read it all trust me. You're confused if not blatently wrong in this matter.
I've dueled with casters since the outset of this NWN. I've dueled against all different kinds of pvp casters (legit, bullet casters etc). It's all timing and this is how I've tought all AoM players and this is why they are the best casters in legit pvp.
Any dispute to this fact is erronious.
Besides I don't even see a point in mage duels now, because the timing doesn't matters that much, and the idea of 'a hit is a hit' doesn't apply either. I did think that was the point of it. Even don't see why doging isn't allowed...
(see my other post in this thread if you wonder why I say this)
I think I soon will have to agree whit james that the current system is better. I so liked the old mage duels, where timing did matter the most. :(
-Mel
[snapback]12874[/snapback]
Dunno what you're talking about. Timing still matters the most, then i'd say spell strategy matters next then build.
[snapback]12893[/snapback]
It doesn't depends on timeing and 'a hit is a hit' whit the things you say about mage duel. Just real all my posts before in this thread if you wonder what I mean, I'm not typeing it again.
-Mel
[snapback]12894[/snapback]
I've read it all trust me. You're confused if not blatently wrong in this matter.
I've dueled with casters since the outset of this NWN. I've dueled against all different kinds of pvp casters (legit, bullet casters etc). It's all timing and this is how I've tought all AoM players and this is why they are the best casters in legit pvp.
Any dispute to this fact is erronious.
[snapback]12895[/snapback]
I not really doubt if you did duel a lot, I did too and I'm also a old player. But that doesn't matters at all. I just can't agree whit your opinoins how you want others to duel. And taking high ice resist is in my eyes lamer than doge them. I just think I'll duel players that don't want to define how others should duel. Like shadowfury that didn't make a problem of it that I used hide to cancel his casts in a mage duel. (this also eats feats and classes to get, even more than iceresist, and is harder to do than running up to the other to avoid the icestorms)
You didn't had a point to get upset againt maxou (even banned him right?) for your different opinion how you should doge icestorm, you say whit resist, he just use his brains and force you to use fod whit works as fine. Just play the game.
You got my opinion now.
Feel free to give a reply like it fits you but I see this convesation as over, and as useless because the current players don't make problems of it.
-Mel
even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .
[snapback]12832[/snapback]
Please use a calculator next time you attempt subtraction.
39 lvl wizard Ice Storm = 108 dmg - 40 cold resist = 68 dmg = X
Issac's = 60 dmg = Y
---> X > Y ---> above comment = false
[snapback]12870[/snapback]
You can't stop ur self isn't it ? Then 5 and it's ok . Anyway 6 is a waste of feats . And even with 4 it would do less dmg than fod .
Mel >> Sry I didn't understand what you meant about cleric/druid vs mage . I mean , can you try on arivs raising sr on spell resistance ( lvl 5 cleric and druid I think ) to afford cleric and druid to "mage duel" . Making that sr spell working just like mantle . I think that would balance mage vs cleric/druid . Dunno really .
even with 4 epic cold resist it does less dmg than isaacs .
[snapback]12832[/snapback]
Please use a calculator next time you attempt subtraction.
39 lvl wizard Ice Storm = 108 dmg - 40 cold resist = 68 dmg = X
Issac's = 60 dmg = Y
---> X > Y ---> above comment = false
[snapback]12870[/snapback]
You can't stop ur self isn't it ? Then 5 and it's ok . Anyway 6 is a waste of feats . And even with 4 it would do less dmg than fod .
Mel >> Sry I didn't understand what you meant about cleric/druid vs mage . I mean , can you try on arivs raising sr on spell resistance ( lvl 5 cleric and druid I think ) to afford cleric and druid to "mage duel" . Making that sr spell working just like mantle . I think that would balance mage vs cleric/druid . Dunno really .
[snapback]12900[/snapback]
Won't make a difference. Spell breach and Mords gets rid of Spell Resistance.
60 or 68 who cares that 8 dmg doesn't make a ice storm worth it when you can just use a FoD.[snapback]12904[/snapback]
FoD is more than 70 damage for high mages. Icestorm is usefull against hiders, FoD is better when someone runs close to you and/or around you. In both cases horrid or isaac's missles give a nice solution too, but a bit less damage for high mages.
-Mel
60 or 68 who cares that 8 dmg doesn't make a ice storm worth it when you can just use a FoD.[snapback]12904[/snapback]
FoD is more than 70 damage for high mages. Icestorm is usefull against hiders, FoD is better when someone runs close to you and/or around you. In both cases horrid or isaac's missles give a nice solution too, but a bit less damage for high mages.
-Mel
[snapback]12906[/snapback]
yeah FoD for my mage is quite crappy, horrod is ok (max 25 d-something) so i get full dmg with it but i still use isaacs when i cant be bothered hiding any more :)
but we were talking about real mages with high lvls >.<[snapback]13007[/snapback]
Not exactly, were talking about the lack of (nearly) pure mages on gs these days. And also those new kind of mages having high hp/ac/ab (and hide somethimes) whit only 26 or lower sorc/wiz levels.
Just, the old mage duels have something special too. Also I not really have problems whit Mo's oppinions about taking ice resist. Just his reaction on other poeple playstyles did bother me. But I don't want to start this again.
Poeple should try those high mage builds a bit more, they can be fun to duel whit. I'm crappy at making them because I want at least 84 ac while having enough spellslots/hp to duel someone whit only spellslots and hp. And I don't want a helm on top of it. On other builds I always can do it whit 1 item less than the others. But that kind of mage can't be done like that.
I know I make it hard (impossible) for myself :P
-Mel
but we were talking about real mages with high lvls >.<[snapback]13007[/snapback]
Not exactly, were talking about the lack of (nearly) pure mages on gs these days. And also those new kind of mages having high hp/ac/ab (and hide somethimes) whit only 26 or lower sorc/wiz levels.
Just, the old mage duels have something special too. Also I not really have problems whit Mo's oppinions about taking ice resist. Just his reaction on other poeple playstyles did bother me. But I don't want to start this again.
Poeple should try those high mage builds a bit more, they can be fun to duel whit. I'm crappy at making them because I want at least 84 ac while having enough spellslots/hp to duel someone whit only spellslots and hp. And I don't want a helm on top of it. On other builds I always can do it whit 1 item less than the others. But that kind of mage can't be done like that.
I know I make it hard (impossible) for myself :P
-Mel
[snapback]13011[/snapback]
I think ( it's just an idea I never tested ) that you can build that kind of mage making 2 gear ( 1 for mage , 1 for fighters ) . Taking like auto still spell 3 , hell ball , epic mage armor , 2/3 epic cold resist , and the other feat on con or hp . Being 37 wizard 3 bard could ( I dunno I never tested ) be great . 3 bard to get silence + thumble . I dunno if you can afford not to take helm though .
I built a 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk pure mage vs mage dueler . It's really easier to duel pure mage vs mage dueler with that kind of char . And mage that can to be all round with less than 30 lvl of mage are really , really , really easier to kill . I'll duel those with my all round try sorc .
ok here's the thing, 108 dmg on an ice storm means this is not a low lvl mage and a FoD would inflict a lot of dmg too, so in that case, yes a FoD is better if someone is using ice resist.
^ to the above post I think you need to consider that those 3 bard lvls don't count for very much at all other then feats and skills. Silencing would mean you can't cast and with no silence feats your a goner. If you meant auto silent feats instead of still then I understand.
[snapback]13027[/snapback]
Mantle + silence ? :P
That work I tested on a 27 sorc 10 PM 3 bard :) Or try that lvl spell making you immune to lvl 2 spells .
ok here's the thing, 108 dmg on an ice storm means this is not a low lvl mage and a FoD would inflict a lot of dmg too, so in that case, yes a FoD is better if someone is using ice resist.
^ to the above post I think you need to consider that those 3 bard lvls don't count for very much at all other then feats and skills. Silencing would mean you can't cast and with no silence feats your a goner. If you meant auto silent feats instead of still then I understand.
[snapback]13027[/snapback]
Mantle + silence ? :P
That work I tested on a 27 sorc 10 PM 3 bard :) Or try that lvl spell making you immune to lvl 2 spells .
[snapback]13033[/snapback]
Old tactic. Useless against anyone with silent spells. And most should have it.
but we were talking about real mages with high lvls >.<[snapback]13007[/snapback]
Not exactly, were talking about the lack of (nearly) pure mages on gs these days. And also those new kind of mages having high hp/ac/ab (and hide somethimes) whit only 26 or lower sorc/wiz levels.
Just, the old mage duels have something special too. Also I not really have problems whit Mo's oppinions about taking ice resist. Just his reaction on other poeple playstyles did bother me. But I don't want to start this again.
Poeple should try those high mage builds a bit more, they can be fun to duel whit. I'm crappy at making them because I want at least 84 ac while having enough spellslots/hp to duel someone whit only spellslots and hp. And I don't want a helm on top of it. On other builds I always can do it whit 1 item less than the others. But that kind of mage can't be done like that.
I know I make it hard (impossible) for myself :P
-Mel
[snapback]13011[/snapback]
I think ( it's just an idea I never tested ) that you can build that kind of mage making 2 gear ( 1 for mage , 1 for fighters ) . Taking like auto still spell 3 , hell ball , epic mage armor , 2/3 epic cold resist , and the other feat on con or hp . Being 37 wizard 3 bard could ( I dunno I never tested ) be great . 3 bard to get silence + thumble . I dunno if you can afford not to take helm though .
I built a 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk pure mage vs mage dueler . It's really easier to duel pure mage vs mage dueler with that kind of char . And mage that can to be all round with less than 30 lvl of mage are really , really , really easier to kill . I'll duel those with my all round try sorc .
[snapback]13018[/snapback]
I have builds like you say whit 30 iceresist, some con, epic spells, auto stilled. A full for mage duels made char will still have a few advanges over it.
Also, most mages have a silenced gust of wind ready to use when silenced or they just cast silenced mantles. And that silence won't last long on a low level.
-Mel
but we were talking about real mages with high lvls >.<[snapback]13007[/snapback]
Not exactly, were talking about the lack of (nearly) pure mages on gs these days. And also those new kind of mages having high hp/ac/ab (and hide somethimes) whit only 26 or lower sorc/wiz levels.
Just, the old mage duels have something special too. Also I not really have problems whit Mo's oppinions about taking ice resist. Just his reaction on other poeple playstyles did bother me. But I don't want to start this again.
Poeple should try those high mage builds a bit more, they can be fun to duel whit. I'm crappy at making them because I want at least 84 ac while having enough spellslots/hp to duel someone whit only spellslots and hp. And I don't want a helm on top of it. On other builds I always can do it whit 1 item less than the others. But that kind of mage can't be done like that.
I know I make it hard (impossible) for myself :P
-Mel
[snapback]13011[/snapback]
I think ( it's just an idea I never tested ) that you can build that kind of mage making 2 gear ( 1 for mage , 1 for fighters ) . Taking like auto still spell 3 , hell ball , epic mage armor , 2/3 epic cold resist , and the other feat on con or hp . Being 37 wizard 3 bard could ( I dunno I never tested ) be great . 3 bard to get silence + thumble . I dunno if you can afford not to take helm though .
I built a 38 sorc 1 pal 1 monk pure mage vs mage dueler . It's really easier to duel pure mage vs mage dueler with that kind of char . And mage that can to be all round with less than 30 lvl of mage are really , really , really easier to kill . I'll duel those with my all round try sorc .
[snapback]13018[/snapback]
I have builds like you say whit 30 iceresist, some con, epic spells, auto stilled. A full for mage duels made char will still have a few advanges over it.
Also, most mages have a silenced gust of wind ready to use when silenced or they just cast silenced mantles. And that silence won't last long on a low level.
-Mel
[snapback]13037[/snapback]
I thought using the silence vs ts and fighter not vs mage .
Anyway I didn't test that was just an idea .
But anyway that kind of build would be killed by hiders , bard aa without ts . It was just to say that you can build that kind of build you want .
Bard AA's dont have ts.
[snapback]13403[/snapback]
Don't get the point, silence also works on them you know... As mage you rip off it's buffs easy too, taunt doesn't affect a some mages either, only whit good luck. 120+ concentration and combat casting, a bard aa doesn't has the charisma to taunt that.
The silence idea isn't bad, only the duration of it is so short whit just 4 bard levels or something like that.
-Mel
Silence can also be gotten rid of w/ lesser dispel, as that has no verbal component in the first place. So really, clerics are at a disadvantage anytime because if they want to buff first, you'd have mantle, they dispel, you mantle (or globe), etc.
Mages will always be one step ahead when dealing w/ silence users.
Back to the topic:
I am a mage myself (I think I'm pure...I've no auto-still feats and just 1 point in Epic Cold Resist..38/1/1 build), but it bugs me whenever other mages would run close to you and start casting causing you to make an 'attack of opportunity'.
[snapback]15924[/snapback]
Are you a mage dueler only ? Because without still spell and high wis you can't have that much AC to duel other class than monk . But if you are mage duel only char take more than 1 point in Epic Cold resist . About that auto attack thing > Yeah it's pretty lame I agree but sometimes you can't prevent people ( and you ) to auto attack .
About silence > some good char can be used with silence vs mage : bard aa ( if you try to dispell silence you waste a precious time and you get hit ) - cleric sd ( if the mage didn't dispell the buff of the cleric , the mage hardly dispell silence ) - mage ( if you do it right it's 3 times free dmg : one he fails the spell , he dispells , he casts pretty difficult to use though you need really good timing ) .
Actually, my mage can hold his own against almost anybody. He's won every type of character before (except pure SR monks since you can't dispel the SR w/ mords or whatever).
The point is some ppl in mage vs. mage duels exploit the lack of the "Improved Combat Casting" feat, and run close to you and cast a spell. But I'd understand if it's by accident. It happens sometimes.
I don't know the difference between pure mage duelers vs battle mages. My mage build is supposedly a 'pure' mage (as I have no PM or RDD levels), but he has 77 AC (and no auto-still). Tis pretty good. Vs. archers, I'd use improved invisibilty + warding, and hope they don't get crits. Vs. weapon masters, they have slightly worse AB, and my fortitude save is 49 so I'm almost impossible to be dev critted.
Only problem now is that instead of Auto-Still, I'm Auto-quickened. Should I change it to Auto-still? Or how about Auto-Silent?
[snapback]15938[/snapback]
Auto Quicken's not that great.. I believe it's bugged. Auto Still is pretty good for all around mages.. You can have a shield for melle and take it off and get a spellslot dagger for mages. Also heavy armor helps a lot.
LoS is a mage guild.. So stuff about mages fits here..
[snapback]17198[/snapback]
I c
Actually, my mage can hold his own against almost anybody. He's won every type of character before (except pure SR monks since you can't dispel the SR w/ mords or whatever).
The point is some ppl in mage vs. mage duels exploit the lack of the "Improved Combat Casting" feat, and run close to you and cast a spell. But I'd understand if it's by accident. It happens sometimes.
I don't know the difference between pure mage duelers vs battle mages. My mage build is supposedly a 'pure' mage (as I have no PM or RDD levels), but he has 77 AC (and no auto-still). Tis pretty good. Vs. archers, I'd use improved invisibilty + warding, and hope they don't get crits. Vs. weapon masters, they have slightly worse AB, and my fortitude save is 49 so I'm almost impossible to be dev critted.
Only problem now is that instead of Auto-Still, I'm Auto-quickened. Should I change it to Auto-still? Or how about Auto-Silent?
[snapback]15938[/snapback]
Auto still is way better . I mean it's different but way better vs melee .