Author Topic: Greatest of the Great Evils?  (Read 7134 times)

Offline 420

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4087
    • View Profile
    • Email
Greatest of the Great Evils?
« on: November 15, 2012, 02:09:14 PM »
Throbblefoot were discussing this topic last night and get into a couple lengthy debates so I decided to start a new thread to discuss the current Diablo 3 poll.

From Topic: Diablo 3 Polls

First, we got hung up on what Blizzard means by the "greatest of the Great Evils".

Quote
But of the seven demon lords who preside (or have once presided) over the forces of the Burning Hells, which is your favorite? In your mind, who do you believe is the greatest of the Great Evils?

We decided that the term "greatest" is somewhat vague but basically means which one is your favorite. Which means the criteria guiding each individual's decision will be somewhat different. So, for the purpose of the poll, we figured "greatest" can be interpreted as: "the most bad-ass Great Evil in your mind".

For instance, we discussed the difficulty of fighting each boss, keeping in mind the differences between D2 and D3 and the arena in which you fight them. Basically judging the sheer power of each boss. So, Belial may be very difficult to fight because the arena he's in is very small and he can hit anywhere the player is standing, but in a larger area Belial would be very weak as compared to the other Great Evils.

But, we also considered the story line aspect of each Great Evil:

How far-reaching was each Great Evil's plan in the overall scheme of things? How effective was each Great Evil at carrying out their plan? Was Belial, the Lord of Lies, really as bad at deceit as he appears or was his impersonation of Emperor Hakan II supposed to be that transparent? Andariel and Duriel lead the lesser evils to victory over the prime evils, it turns out that was the prime evil's plan all along. And when did the other Great Evils even become aware of Diablo's plans to beat them all?

We got stuck on talking about how much of a douche bag Belial could potentially be so I'm sure I'll have more thoughts to post on the matter this weekend.

-420

Offline Mo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
    • MSN Messenger - cochy@msn.com
    • View Profile
    • http://lucidmagic.net
    • Email
Re: Greatest of the Great Evils?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 02:28:24 PM »
Belial is a silly child who couldn't fool a 2 year old.  Lord of Lies? What a farce!

Azmodan is the worst battle commander ever known as he constantly reveals his plans to the player.  Plus he's a very weak boss fight.

Diablo continues to fail no matter how many plans he hatches.  He is also very annoying to listen to and not a very challenging boss fight either.

Deckard Cain fears Mephisto the most.

Offline 420

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4087
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Greatest of the Great Evils?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 04:42:23 PM »
Azmodan is the worst battle commander ever known as he constantly reveals his plans to the player.  Plus he's a very weak boss fight.
Not to mention he's missing 5 commanders since he only brings Gluttony and Lust to the big battle.

Diablo continues to fail no matter how many plans he hatches.  He is also very annoying to listen to and not a very challenging boss fight either.
But his continuing plan is to return as a more powerful incarnation each time he's beaten. In fact, the plot of the original Diablo was to force heroes to venture through a demon infested dungeon in order to make them more powerful because the king's son was such a weak vessel. Whoever became powerful enough to make it to the end got the "reward" of becoming the next incarnation of Diablo. So, in that regards Diablo has been successful as each incarnation has been more powerful than the last. (I think he's on to something with that "shadow clone" idea.)

Deckard Cain fears Mephisto the most.
Good point, unlike the other Great Evils Mephisto is patient and relies on long-term, subtle corruption. So it's difficult to detect his influence until his plan comes to fruition (ie the corruption of the Zakarum and subsequent destruction of Kurast).

-420

Offline cuchulann

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 486
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Greatest of the Great Evils?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 12:27:26 AM »
Well lets review them.

Andariel: Maybe she could have been something better but really she was small time. At best she had corrupted the Rogues on her own before her career got torn down. Did she really take part in bringing down the Prime evils? A bit mixed up in her ambitions if you ask me.

Duriel: Hmm some blob of flesh who shows up with no introduction in place of what you thought would be one of the prime evils. There is a word for that kind,  Tool.

Belial: Fool. I think Mo drove that point home already.

Azmodan: If I can give him any kind of credit it would be that the death of Belial stepped up his timetable way above his comfort zone. So he had to begin his attack early. Where indeed were the other five sins? My guess is they were still on leave and could not make it back in time to join the battle. So with his command structure pretty much absent he threw everything out at once. As you kill off his minions and destroy his lovely toys you can taste the panic rising in his taunts. When it finally comes down to him he has lost all control, and being unaccustomed to getting his claws dirty, fails outright.

Mephisto: Some good points have been made about him already so Ill go into what does not work for him. Of the three primes, Meph is the sniveling, anemic, weasely one. What went on after Diablo entered into hell? Notice that Mephisto was the only one of the three left when you arrive on the scene. Im thinking Baal heard the compelling stone being smashed and then said, well bro gotta get back to my business, been imprisoned for a long time and all so theres a lot of work to do. So just chill out here and ill catch ya later. Bye! And really, Meph does drop like a sack of potatoes.

Diablo: Hes a tough customer. Very powerful and is always seeking more power. However he is over arrogant, has poor leadership skills, and not very good at dealing with new situations. He does have a handful of minions but he just throws each one out with a threat ringing in their ears and leaves them. He also has a fixation with fallen angels, in particular, Izual. Honestly why did that guy come back? I thought when you killed him the first time and his spirit appeared in angelic form and vanished that it was done and signed for. Diablo must have really missed him to bring him back if you know what I mean. Finally Diablo only learned one new trick after absorbing all the other souls of the lords of hell. That was to port you into another realm where he can summon shadow versions of yourself. Otherwise he sticks to his old game plan, fire, lightning, cages. Rinse and repeat.  Finally he always seems very frustrated that he keeps getting beaten. You would think he had learned a bit more about the abilities of people after having died at their hands multiple times.

Baal: Yes I have saved the one I am leaning towards for last and Ill tell you why. Terror, hate, anguish, pain, lies, and sin are all personal, abstract, mental and emotional constructs requiring an outside effect to exist. Most of these require sentient thought. All can be ignored, or at the least lessened by the mindset of the one who feels them. Destruction however is a force. All which is created will ultimately be destroyed, living or not. Baal is that. Where was he when his brothers were slain? Obviously lying low and giggling his head off as he watched it happen. Baal needs no motive; he has no long term goals. Yes he seeks power but for why? So he can destroy even more. He does not need to plan, only to wreak mindless havoc wherever he goes. He also is very good about how he uses his tools, all of which are intended to be destroyed as soon as he no longer needs them. Duriel and Nilithak, they served their purpose to perfection. Hes the kind of guy who laughs his ass off as wave upon wave of minions die in front of him. Hes a bona fide maniac and he loves every moment of it.

Baal he's the freak to fear!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 12:32:59 AM by cuchulann »
One Less Car - SF Bicycle Coalition

Offline Soul Sojourner

  • Resident Awesome
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Nothing is true; everything is permitted.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Greatest of the Great Evils?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 10:31:38 AM »
I'm still for Mephisto, as before.

As for Baal, I did consider him. However, I believe destruction is a double-edged sword and self destruction is inevitable. Further more, the corruption of the world stone would have proven more fruitful than the destruction of it, he corrupted it and it in turn got destroyed because of it, had he successfully left the world with a corrupted stone and gotten away with it, he would have done more damage.

Diablo seemed pretty badass before he started talking, now he's just a bitch. Azmodan sounds badass but is an even bigger bitch. Belial should've been a minion, he's that weak. Andariel and Duriel are wannabees.

As for hatred, such a power can manipulate others to fight each other rather than him and you can't hate him; he can manipulate that.

In regards to their strength in the second game basing it on their difficulty is an unfair comparison. Each was only as powerful as they were based on who they took over, Mephisto simply had the Zakarum, whereas Diablo had the hero from the first game, and Baal had Tal Rasha. Even their appearances for at least some time were due to who they had taken over.

As an added bonus, Mephisto spouts revelations, and he does so quite well, actually.

I know Legion doesn't count, but he turned out to be an ugly retard. Just sayin'

In all honesty though, the one to be feared above all others, and I know 'she' isn't on the list, but... whatever gave birth to the three prime evils... that's gotta be something else... lol

Offline Mo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
    • MSN Messenger - cochy@msn.com
    • View Profile
    • http://lucidmagic.net
    • Email
Re: Greatest of the Great Evils?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2012, 11:10:56 AM »
Anyway.  They are all chump change as the Diablo universe has devolved into a nursery rhyme.  "That is not the only hellrift!!" oh STFU.

I change my vote to the real Lord of Hell:

Asmodeus

Offline 420

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4087
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Greatest of the Great Evils?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 02:21:44 PM »
After lengthy discussion Throbble and I decided on Mephisto for a few reasons.

Mephisto is to be feared most because his influence is so subtle and potent that he can spread a vast amount of corruption without detection. (Way better than that spaz Belial.)

In addition to corrupting the seat of the Zakarum faith, which in turn caused the destruction of Travincal, capital of Kurast, Mephisto also corrupted an entire humanoid race, creating the Morlu.

Quote
The evil of Mephisto, Lord of Hatred, was so pervasive that even after being defeated and entombed in a soulstone, his demonic essence oozed upward into Travincal and corrupted the Zakarum priests. Though he fell to the same heroes who killed his brothers, I fear for us should he ever return.

Deckard Cain

So far, Mephisto's long range plans have been the most successful (strictly with regards to the Diablo 2 storyline). In anticipation of his and his brothers' breaking free of their respective prisons he prepared a site suitable to open a gate to hell, then delayed the heroes long enough to buy time for both of his brothers to successfully carry out their plans. (ie Diablo reclaiming hell and Bhaal capturing and corrupting the Worldstone.)

-420
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 09:08:54 PM by 420 »

Offline Mo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
    • MSN Messenger - cochy@msn.com
    • View Profile
    • http://lucidmagic.net
    • Email
Re: Greatest of the Great Evils?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 08:39:44 PM »
Excellent! So it's settled.

All hail Lord Mephisto! 

Direct us Lord of Hatred.  Your will be done!