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420:
OK, here are some things I discovered while participating in the PvP Extreme Weekend:

1. While Me/E Faster Cast nukers are very fun and effective in PvP they are almost totally useless in 4v4 PvP due to the fact that it is easy to spot them in the crowd. I think the no-defense nuke build would be most effective in a 8v8 battle with one protection/healing monk looking after them. Or possibly a single monk assigned to 2 nukers. In short, the nuker can dish it out but it can't take it.

2. Though the W/Mo tank seems to have dropped in popularity they seem to still be one of the most effective PvP builds. In fact I noticed that there was a serious lack of W/Mo tanks this weekend and when Throbble and I switched from playing Nukes to playing Tanks we did much better in all aspects of PvP.

3. The "Competition Arena" (Lion's Arch) yielded FAR more faction points than either the "Team Arena" (Droknar's Forge) or the Tomb of the Primeval Kings (Dragon's Lair) for 2 reasons. First, you didn't sit around waiting for the team leader to assemble the "best of the best" (an actual quote from some asshole who took an hour to put a Tomb's team together). Second, since the team is randomely assembled they are much more evenly (or unevenly) balanced.

That said, I have yet to be able to beat a team where every character on that team was either primary or secondary monk. Monks are the key to PvP and, barring any major tweaks to their skills, are invaluable assets to PvP teams.

Comments?

-420

Anheg:

--- Quote ---That said, I have yet to be able to beat a team where every character on that team was either primary or secondary monk. Monks are the key to PvP and, barring any major tweaks to their skills, are invaluable assets to PvP teams.

Comments?

-420
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--- End quote ---
I was in a party once that was 4 primary monks. We got smoked because it was me (smiter) and 3 healers

Mo:
Ok i played pvp all weekend.  I agree and disagree with some of 420's comment.  Firstly I agree in 4v4 no defense nukers are ineffective.  In 4v4 you must have proper defensive skills booked.  Also equiping a rez sig is vital for 4v4 success.

On to the W/Mo story.  I do not believe these builds are good in pvp. Sure a tank can kill any noob ranger, monk, or caster, but he can not kill any vetran player on his own.  He simply doesn't do enough dmg.  The one thing he's good at isn't useful in pvp and that's living long on his own.  If your team is dying around you and you are incapable to do much dmg to even the score then you might as well be dead along with them.  My N/E laughs in the face of any W/Mo, as it would take one 10 mins to kill her but he has around 30 seconds to live.  That goes for a tank vs. any other build. An air spiker can make short work of one, fire nuker also, geomancer just forget about it if he uses wards.  As far as I've seen only the hammer warrior does well on his own because he can knockdown casters and monks which is very useful.  Otherwise W/Mo are only good in pairs while they attack the same target.  I was playing with Thobble. Shadow and Taarna, we did well when throbble and shadow ganged up on enemy monks.  While they kept the monk busy keeping himself from dying I was able to take out other targets.

2 monk teams in 4v4 aren't so good as they do not have enough offense to ultimately prevail.  Such a team however is good on the "deathmatch" RoF map.

The best teams I've been with for 4v4 have almost always had 1 excellent healing monk.  Healing monks are overpowered in 4v4, as a simple skills such as Healing Hands which require 5 enegy to cast and 5 second recharge can heal a monk for over 200 hp.  That's insane if you think about it.  Combine that with the other healing skills and there is almost no single build that can single handedly kill a monk.

On to 8v8.  As I have little experiece with this I will keep this short.  I think the Hounds are almost ready to engage in these battles.  Though unfortunately I rarely see enough hounds online.  There is however a noticible lack of Mesmers in the guild.  Mesmers are the hardest class to play but they are the best pvp class in GW.  A well thought out teams with a couple of mesmers casting skills like backfire, migrane, arcane conundum, crippling anguish, fragilty to name a few is the difference between a good 8 man team and a bad one.

I figure 2 primary monks, 1 for healing 1 for protection. Perhaps a Me/N for enchantment removal/backfire casting... plus your basic spikers and nukers and such.  I saw a team use Meteor Shower with high results.  It's a good skill if you can time it properly.  I was thinking how about using glyph of sacrifice with it.  That way you can cast is instantly without 5 second casting, instant shower could be deadly.

Throbblefoot:
I found that my nuker did well in 8v8 when the team was balanced between offense, defense, and denial/shutdown. My nuker pretty much died in 4v4, so I have to agreee that 4v4 is the death zone for nukers.

That said, I have to disagree with Mo's assessment of tanks in PvP. In particular to 4v4 "Annialate the Other Team" random matches, I did very well using Restore Life (instead of rez sig) because I could stay alive long enough to raise two or three of my teammates, who could then finish off the other team (most times). In the "Most Kills" random matches, I had really mixed results, depending on the ratio of casters/fighters in the two teams.

I do agree that two Warriors wailing on a single foe (preferably with different weapon types) can be very effective. In tournament, the best team I had was was pretty much:
2 nukers
2 Warriors - axe and hammer (we also did okay with a Warrior and a Ranger)
2 healing Monks, one with prot, one with smite
1 denial Mesmer (who had some incidental Monk skills)
Either a N/E or A R/E (we had both)

We got to the third round of the Tombs twice in an hour (not that far, so we know the team isn't optimal). Hounds already have better monks than that team, but we need to maybe get more secondary Monks so we can exchange a healer for some offense.

I think 8v8 is the best bet for the Hounds. Let's see if we can schedule some play-time. How about this Saturday sometime?

-Throbblefoot

420:

--- Quote --- I saw a team use Meteor Shower with high results.  It's a good skill if you can time it properly.  I was thinking how about using glyph of sacrifice with it.  That way you can cast is instantly without 5 second casting, instant shower could be deadly.
[snapback]27054[/snapback]
--- End quote ---

I can definitly substitute Meteor Shower for one of my other offensive fire skills now that the new balance has lowered it's cost. 16 fast cast should be pretty close to instantly and it only costs me 2 mana with Elemental Attunment and Fire Attunement.

-420

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